Then to ask Duck Street to be more specific about what they want removed?
Where to go from here
- Thread starter Ruralinfo
- Start date
Where are these sources and how do we access them?
Hey everyone.. So yes I was planning on continuing the website into retirement. I am currently in the process of crafting my response letter to them and asking for clarifications on some things. They told me they applaud my efforts but in the end it does more harm than good for the membership. They specifically mention items behind a password on the NRLCA website.
USPS should have the same documents. Might have to do a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request, but I would think the contract, MOUs, salary schedules, EMA schedule, and things like that are public record and not some union secret. I will try tomorrow do see if I can access these things outside of NRLCA.
Guin
Well-known member
If you can I would think that this would make their threats empty and baseless. Would probably contact an attorney.
I guess you will have to make the web site totally invisible until we enter EIN, username and password similar to NRLCA site so no info can not be accessed unless you are in Rural Craft. Make info available to just us in the Rural Craft to keep the ones who should want to know our complaints and cause trouble out of the website. This site informs better than the Union site.
I do know the Contract and some other documents, for example was on Postal Blue, not Light Blue.
As this is not a Union Shop, I think there should be another source than the NRLCA for this information. Unless the union gains this responsibility by being the sole representative.
However, at this time I don't know about another access.
Sounds like you could still post a link to their site for news releases and steward links. If someone cannot access the information, they can always contact a steward to provide it. Stewards are required to upkeep a union board at every rural installation. Very few do so. Perhaps, you can turn this into a different way for the union to ACTUALLY DO THEIR JOB by interacting with membership.
I do hope you find a way to continue the great success of this website. Your efforts have enlightened many. Thank you ?
Perhaps you could mention in your letter the number of members you currently have, and that some have voiced concerns that spending Union Dues to pursue what, on the surface appears to be a personal vendetta, might be perceived as shirking their fiduciary responsibilities. And that some of your members have voiced the intention to file complaints with The Office Of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS) regarding this fiduciary lapse if further funds are spent to restrict the rights of members to view, share and discuss Contracts, Pay Scales MOU's as well as other items affecting the Rural Carrier Craft.
Furthermore it has been established court precedent that in the event the (OLMS) pursues the investigation into the potential fiduciary lapse, The financial responsibility for legal fees would be the personal responsibility of those officers involved in this decision, not the Unions responsibility.
Therefore, it is the policy of the Office of Labor-Management Standards (OLMS) to investigate,
at its discretion, allegations of violations by union officers and other representatives of their
fiduciary responsibilities under section 501(a) of the LMRDA. The results of such investigations
will be made known to interested persons as appropriate.
512.810 DUAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION
The United States Court of Appeals for District of Columbia in commenting on the use of
union funds and counsel in the defense of union officers charged with wrongdoing against
the union stated:
“As a general proposition we think funds of a union are not available to defend officers charged
with wrongdoing which, if the charges were true, would be seriously detrimental to the union
and its membership. See, e.g., Highway Truck Drivers and Helpers Local 107, International Brotherhood
of Teamsters v. Cohen, 182 F.Supp. 608, 619-22 (E.D. Pa. 1960), aff’d, 284 F.2d 162 (3d Cir. 1960), cert.
denied, 365 U.S. 833 (1961). Cf. Witherspoon v. Hornbein, 70 Colo. 1 (Sup. Colo. 1921), involving officers
of a corporation. The treasury of a union is not at the disposal of its officers to bear the cost of their
defense against charges of fraudulently depriving the members of their rights as members.
It is clear the complaint in this case charged individual officer defendants with conduct which
was seriously detrimental to the interests of the International and to the rights of its members.
And in deciding whether or not union funds may be used to defend such a suit the final outcome of
the charges is not determinative; for if the charges have substance a sound resolution may be prevented
by the very fact of dual representation during the process leading to a decision with respect to the
charges. Different counsel would be required in this process. In other words, counsel who are chosen
by and represent officers charged with the misconduct, and who also represent the union, are not able
to guide the litigation in the best interest of the union because of the conflict in counsel’s loyalties.
In such a situation it would be incumbent upon counsel not to represent both the union and the
officers.”
DB.Cooper
Well-known member
I really don't get that.. these are not private documents.... they are documents that pertain to the USPS.... hardly a private entity or company..... this stuff should be available to the public.... certainly to all Rural craft employees.... what's the big funking secret????
?
As a point of labor law, this union owns the grievance once it is handed to them for representation. As such, any union money and time spend securing a decision on said grievance, is proof of intellectual property of the outcome results.
However, I still believe this site is a huge positive step for the membership. It promotes education, promotes researching work problems, promotes contacting Union for answers. It always has a disclaimer on the page so people know many answers are opinions or wishes and not facts.
Still a real puts move by NRLCA.
However, I still believe this site is a huge positive step for the membership. It promotes education, promotes researching work problems, promotes contacting Union for answers. It always has a disclaimer on the page so people know many answers are opinions or wishes and not facts.
Still a real puts move by NRLCA.
Ruraladmin -- "So yes I was planning on continuing the website into retirement. "
-- If possible, please do!!
"I am currently in the process of crafting my response letter to them and asking for clarifications on some things. They told me they applaud my efforts but in the end it does more harm than good for the membership. They specifically mention items behind a password on the NRLCA website."
-- On the contrary, it would seem not knowing would be harmful to the membership. ( JMHO )
-- Why not ask specifically how information behind the curtain, er, NRLCA homepage could ( possibly ) hurt the membership. ( does it take a steward to interpret what is in black and white? ) And ask if they plan on providing MORE information to the membership, dues-paying or not. They seemed to do well with info on Covid-19, so why not on other matters important to ALL the rural carriers they "represent".
-- Maybe if the NRLCA would fully represent the membership instead of seemingly resenting them, they'd get more positive feedback.
-- I guess you are getting a unfortunate welcome to the "cancel culture", which seems to be getting stronger these days.
-- At least you now know for certain that someone at NRLCA is looking in on your website.
-- Do not go gentle into that good night ( or words to the effect! )
-- If possible, please do!!
"I am currently in the process of crafting my response letter to them and asking for clarifications on some things. They told me they applaud my efforts but in the end it does more harm than good for the membership. They specifically mention items behind a password on the NRLCA website."
-- On the contrary, it would seem not knowing would be harmful to the membership. ( JMHO )
-- Why not ask specifically how information behind the curtain, er, NRLCA homepage could ( possibly ) hurt the membership. ( does it take a steward to interpret what is in black and white? ) And ask if they plan on providing MORE information to the membership, dues-paying or not. They seemed to do well with info on Covid-19, so why not on other matters important to ALL the rural carriers they "represent".
-- Maybe if the NRLCA would fully represent the membership instead of seemingly resenting them, they'd get more positive feedback.
-- I guess you are getting a unfortunate welcome to the "cancel culture", which seems to be getting stronger these days.
-- At least you now know for certain that someone at NRLCA is looking in on your website.
-- Do not go gentle into that good night ( or words to the effect! )
Flimflammed(Quasar)
Well-known member
They don't like us communicating anyway.
This comes down from the usps to the nrlca to ri.
But what about a merger deal, with ri becoming part of nrlca website, or something. I already pay dues, don't know how you'd work that part out.
I don't know why you have to pay dues to use the stewards reference, if were all supposed to be represented the same.
This comes down from the usps to the nrlca to ri.
But what about a merger deal, with ri becoming part of nrlca website, or something. I already pay dues, don't know how you'd work that part out.
I don't know why you have to pay dues to use the stewards reference, if were all supposed to be represented the same.
"They told me they applaud my efforts but in the end it does more harm than good for the membership."
Applaud your efforts ? Should have written to you something more like ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUCCESS !!
From the inception of this site, those who have participated in any way whatsoever have been viewed as separatists , online radicals , dissenters, etc. I have always viewed the participants on this site like I view myself and that is LOYAL OPPOSITION. Besides, many a great and positive change throughout history and the world have been born from separatists , dissenters as well as loyal opponents. Generally, when an entity knows their position is too weak to withstand debate that entity turns to retaliate in some way and / or silence those that threaten the established status quo. I mean look....................this country actually had to create and pass a law referred to as The Whistleblower Act to protect those that would tell the truth and even that law still does not protect everyone who does the right thing. What does that tell ya' ? Had to make a law to protect someone telling the truth and being transparent and / or exposing nefarious actions.
I gotta believe that even the most staunch union loyalist ( you know the type--just repeats what he/ she was told by their next higher up in the organization, not a free thinker at all, afraid to challenge or question his / her superior , etc. ) is bothered by this latest action of the organization of which they are a part. Of course, if the priority is monetarily motivated then the system will inherently have serious problems and not ever really succeed. When the priority is motivated by a sincere and genuine passion to act accordingly , success and money will be plentiful. Any closed loop system based upon positive feedback is destined to oscillate out of control and spiral into the abyss of failure.
Applaud your efforts ? Should have written to you something more like ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUCCESS !!
From the inception of this site, those who have participated in any way whatsoever have been viewed as separatists , online radicals , dissenters, etc. I have always viewed the participants on this site like I view myself and that is LOYAL OPPOSITION. Besides, many a great and positive change throughout history and the world have been born from separatists , dissenters as well as loyal opponents. Generally, when an entity knows their position is too weak to withstand debate that entity turns to retaliate in some way and / or silence those that threaten the established status quo. I mean look....................this country actually had to create and pass a law referred to as The Whistleblower Act to protect those that would tell the truth and even that law still does not protect everyone who does the right thing. What does that tell ya' ? Had to make a law to protect someone telling the truth and being transparent and / or exposing nefarious actions.
I gotta believe that even the most staunch union loyalist ( you know the type--just repeats what he/ she was told by their next higher up in the organization, not a free thinker at all, afraid to challenge or question his / her superior , etc. ) is bothered by this latest action of the organization of which they are a part. Of course, if the priority is monetarily motivated then the system will inherently have serious problems and not ever really succeed. When the priority is motivated by a sincere and genuine passion to act accordingly , success and money will be plentiful. Any closed loop system based upon positive feedback is destined to oscillate out of control and spiral into the abyss of failure.
DB.Cooper
Well-known member
Seems to me, the APWU and NALC have WAY better websites than does the NRLCA. .. and I have this opinion because I can see their websites with NO password.... why do those unions make so much info available without passwords, but the NRLCA won't share any info without a password... and, they won't give passwords to rural craft members they represent, unless they pay the dues.... it's like they're trying to hold information as hostage to try and make peeps pay their jacked up dues.... imo, the NRLCA is funked up.... 
DB.Cooper
Well-known member
That was my exact thinking as well.... any Step 4s or anything else, was a joint effort between the USPS and the "union'.... can't see how any of it is the exclusive "property" of the NRLCA.... and the PT, as a dues paying member, certainly should have some rights of access.... js.... WE are the union, according to them..... or is that only true when they're trying to BLAME the membership for something....
?
Haychica
Well-known member
Well..that just made my mind up for me..withdrawing from the union...I will NOT be censored.
What reason did they give you
