You're Getting Cut, What to Do?
- Thread starter Morty
- Start date
I got cut 4 hours. Don't know how the hell that can be since I keep adding boxes and businesses. Nothing has changed since I started except it grew.
Mailer Swift
New member
Morty, why do you say that all above 45K will be cut? Isn't it only 47 and 48 that is interim? Cliff, were you cut by the count or by manglement?
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Morty said </strong>
Can we start a thread on whats next now that you know youre getting cut?
For those that shot past 45k:
Things we should know, things to avoid. What you should include in your letter. </blockquote>
Unless you're having 2080 issues, Mgmt can't cut you until 47k. Cliff, there's a lot of possibilities as to why you counted at 4 hrs down. Did you double check ALL entries, footages, mileage (doesn't change), Col 17 times? If you have CBUs or apartments then you get an extra trip footage for unloading Boxholders &a full-coverage flats at those stops if you take them to the street.
Mgmt cannot cut any routes until after the April 28 count-effective date so everyone will get at least 1 pay period at the count-evaluation.
Can we start a thread on whats next now that you know youre getting cut?
For those that shot past 45k:
Things we should know, things to avoid. What you should include in your letter. </blockquote>
Unless you're having 2080 issues, Mgmt can't cut you until 47k. Cliff, there's a lot of possibilities as to why you counted at 4 hrs down. Did you double check ALL entries, footages, mileage (doesn't change), Col 17 times? If you have CBUs or apartments then you get an extra trip footage for unloading Boxholders &a full-coverage flats at those stops if you take them to the street.
Mgmt cannot cut any routes until after the April 28 count-effective date so everyone will get at least 1 pay period at the count-evaluation.
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Mailer Swift said </strong>
Morty, why do you say that all above 45K will be cut? Isn't it only 47 and 48 that is interim? Cliff, were you cut by the count or by manglement? </blockquote>
Management told me that I lost 4 hours after count. I can't believe that but don't know what I can do about it.
Morty, why do you say that all above 45K will be cut? Isn't it only 47 and 48 that is interim? Cliff, were you cut by the count or by manglement? </blockquote>
Management told me that I lost 4 hours after count. I can't believe that but don't know what I can do about it.
D.B.Cooper
Active member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Cliff Clavin said </strong>
Management told me that I lost 4 hours after count. I can't believe that but don't know what I can do about it. </blockquote>
I have OCD about my evaluation... plugged the numbers in to one of FrozenToes calculators day-by-day... so whatever they "say" better match what I got, or some reconciliation needs to be done... and I will do it... <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
Wow, we got Mailer Swift on here... <img title="Surprised" alt="Surprised" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-surprised.gif" /> Cousin to Taylor, I'm guessing.... Shake it up, Shake it up.... <img title="Laugh" alt="Laugh" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif" />
Management told me that I lost 4 hours after count. I can't believe that but don't know what I can do about it. </blockquote>
I have OCD about my evaluation... plugged the numbers in to one of FrozenToes calculators day-by-day... so whatever they "say" better match what I got, or some reconciliation needs to be done... and I will do it... <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
Wow, we got Mailer Swift on here... <img title="Surprised" alt="Surprised" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-surprised.gif" /> Cousin to Taylor, I'm guessing.... Shake it up, Shake it up.... <img title="Laugh" alt="Laugh" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif" />
Joe Reeser
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Cliff Clavin said </strong>
Management told me that I lost 4 hours after count. I can't believe that but don't know what I can do about it. </blockquote>
Management told me I stayed the same at a 43J. I have more boxes and a higher volume factor than I did previously. Plus all the Amazon parcels. This route hasn't been counted since 2013. I used one the calculators on here and I'm up two hours so we'll see what tomorrow holds, I suppose.
Management told me that I lost 4 hours after count. I can't believe that but don't know what I can do about it. </blockquote>
Management told me I stayed the same at a 43J. I have more boxes and a higher volume factor than I did previously. Plus all the Amazon parcels. This route hasn't been counted since 2013. I used one the calculators on here and I'm up two hours so we'll see what tomorrow holds, I suppose.
Rt2mailman
Well-known member
There are many "games" that are played with what a carrier wants from count, and after route cuts are made due to a "gaining" count like a lot of us have just had. These "games" or twists and turns one makes depends on what outcome you want. More money is generally what everyone wants, but some want less work, possibly due to injury/body wear, or more work (J/H-route) in order to get more money.
If you, as most, just want to maximize the amount of money with the least amount of work you should have guessed that your route was going to grow before hand and made some adjustments to your edit book. Although you are only required to remove customers from your edit book if they have a permanent forward that is past 90 days, the USPS never penalizes you (that I'm aware of) for having removed customers on a temporary forward after 90 days, or sometimes even close to 90 days. Doing this before or during count could put you at an advantage if your route moves into the overburdened status. As an overburdened route you will be cut back to a 43-k as a general rule. If after that cut, those customers that you removed from your edit sheet returned, your route would "grow", and if you have enough customers returning, this would put you into the next hour. Even if the USPS policy is to cut you to a 43, you could end up being a 44+k in a month or so after the count.
If you don't mind working a J route you could ask your pm to cut you back another hour to a 42-k (they are usually agreeable to make more of a cut than required) and as long as your route is below 50:43 for the week, and you are eligible, (able to have signed the high option on the final count sheet) you can take the J option and receive a 46-J route. You can do the same for a J-> H as long as your hours are below 46:29 you can become a 46-H, by these methods you can maximize your pay hours, with anything over 40 being overtime hours, again increasing your pay.
These are a few of the legal ways to max out your pay, there are many illegal ways which may jeopardize your employment completely and I would not recommend, but have seen carriers get away with many even when their managers knew what they did.
If you, as most, just want to maximize the amount of money with the least amount of work you should have guessed that your route was going to grow before hand and made some adjustments to your edit book. Although you are only required to remove customers from your edit book if they have a permanent forward that is past 90 days, the USPS never penalizes you (that I'm aware of) for having removed customers on a temporary forward after 90 days, or sometimes even close to 90 days. Doing this before or during count could put you at an advantage if your route moves into the overburdened status. As an overburdened route you will be cut back to a 43-k as a general rule. If after that cut, those customers that you removed from your edit sheet returned, your route would "grow", and if you have enough customers returning, this would put you into the next hour. Even if the USPS policy is to cut you to a 43, you could end up being a 44+k in a month or so after the count.
If you don't mind working a J route you could ask your pm to cut you back another hour to a 42-k (they are usually agreeable to make more of a cut than required) and as long as your route is below 50:43 for the week, and you are eligible, (able to have signed the high option on the final count sheet) you can take the J option and receive a 46-J route. You can do the same for a J-> H as long as your hours are below 46:29 you can become a 46-H, by these methods you can maximize your pay hours, with anything over 40 being overtime hours, again increasing your pay.
These are a few of the legal ways to max out your pay, there are many illegal ways which may jeopardize your employment completely and I would not recommend, but have seen carriers get away with many even when their managers knew what they did.
faceindawind
New member
@Cliff... With your growth did you gain significant miles? If not, sounds like you might have become an L route.
Carrier who became L this count went from 41K to 42J/L.
Carrier who became L this count went from 41K to 42J/L.
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Rt2mailman said </strong>
There are many "games" that are played with what a carrier wants from count, and after route cuts are made due to a "gaining" count like a lot of us have just had. These "games" or twists and turns one makes depends on what outcome you want. More money is generally what everyone wants, but some want less work, possibly due to injury/body wear, or more work (J/H-route) in order to get more money.
If you, as most, just want to maximize the amount of money with the least amount of work you should have guessed that your route was going to grow before hand and made some adjustments to your edit book. Although you are only required to remove customers from your edit book if they have a permanent forward that is past 90 days, the USPS never penalizes you (that I'm aware of) for having removed customers on a temporary forward after 90 days, or sometimes even close to 90 days. Doing this before or during count could put you at an advantage if your route moves into the overburdened status. As an overburdened route you will be cut back to a 43-k as a general rule. If after that cut, those customers that you removed from your edit sheet returned, your route would "grow", and if you have enough customers returning, this would put you into the next hour. Even if the USPS policy is to cut you to a 43, you could end up being a 44+k in a month or so after the count.
If you don't mind working a J route you could ask your pm to cut you back another hour to a 42-k (they are usually agreeable to make more of a cut than required) and as long as your route is below 50:43 for the week, and you are eligible, (able to have signed the high option on the final count sheet) you can take the J option and receive a 46-J route. You can do the same for a J-> H as long as your hours are below 46:29 you can become a 46-H, by these methods you can maximize your pay hours, with anything over 40 being overtime hours, again increasing your pay.
These are a few of the legal ways to max out your pay, there are many illegal ways which may jeopardize your employment completely and I would not recommend, but have seen carriers get away with many even when their managers knew what they did. </blockquote>
The thing to remember about allowing cutting into the "high option" line is if you have potential growth then that "high money" won't be there for long. With growth comes low money as in a huge cut in pay. If there is no growth then go for it! Just a reminder.
There are many "games" that are played with what a carrier wants from count, and after route cuts are made due to a "gaining" count like a lot of us have just had. These "games" or twists and turns one makes depends on what outcome you want. More money is generally what everyone wants, but some want less work, possibly due to injury/body wear, or more work (J/H-route) in order to get more money.
If you, as most, just want to maximize the amount of money with the least amount of work you should have guessed that your route was going to grow before hand and made some adjustments to your edit book. Although you are only required to remove customers from your edit book if they have a permanent forward that is past 90 days, the USPS never penalizes you (that I'm aware of) for having removed customers on a temporary forward after 90 days, or sometimes even close to 90 days. Doing this before or during count could put you at an advantage if your route moves into the overburdened status. As an overburdened route you will be cut back to a 43-k as a general rule. If after that cut, those customers that you removed from your edit sheet returned, your route would "grow", and if you have enough customers returning, this would put you into the next hour. Even if the USPS policy is to cut you to a 43, you could end up being a 44+k in a month or so after the count.
If you don't mind working a J route you could ask your pm to cut you back another hour to a 42-k (they are usually agreeable to make more of a cut than required) and as long as your route is below 50:43 for the week, and you are eligible, (able to have signed the high option on the final count sheet) you can take the J option and receive a 46-J route. You can do the same for a J-> H as long as your hours are below 46:29 you can become a 46-H, by these methods you can maximize your pay hours, with anything over 40 being overtime hours, again increasing your pay.
These are a few of the legal ways to max out your pay, there are many illegal ways which may jeopardize your employment completely and I would not recommend, but have seen carriers get away with many even when their managers knew what they did. </blockquote>
The thing to remember about allowing cutting into the "high option" line is if you have potential growth then that "high money" won't be there for long. With growth comes low money as in a huge cut in pay. If there is no growth then go for it! Just a reminder.
Morty
Well-known member
My route came out to 57hr and some change. There are some grieveable things that would push me past the 57:36? threshold.
So I assume I'll be cut right?
So with that: I have 2 areas I would let go.
1. 3+ letter a box high # of box low mile section.
2. 1 letter a box low box high mile with some biz that ship about 10 pkg/day. I've been told that mngt can take a biz away and give it to the aux rt. To make dispatch.
It's choices like this I don't know what's best in light of the study.
So I assume I'll be cut right?
So with that: I have 2 areas I would let go.
1. 3+ letter a box high # of box low mile section.
2. 1 letter a box low box high mile with some biz that ship about 10 pkg/day. I've been told that mngt can take a biz away and give it to the aux rt. To make dispatch.
It's choices like this I don't know what's best in light of the study.
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Morty said </strong>
My route came out to 57hr and some change. There are some grieveable things that would push me past the 57:36? threshold.
So I assume I'll be cut right?
So with that: I have 2 areas I would let go.
1. 3+ letter a box high # of box low mile section.
2. 1 letter a box low box high mile with some biz that ship about 10 pkg/day. I've been told that mngt can take a biz away and give it to the aux rt. To make dispatch.
It's choices like this I don't know what's best in light of the study. </blockquote>
Mgmt cannot take just one delivery address away but they can take a street or portion of a street (like 3000-6000 block). What they can do is put the "collection" of that business on a collection route or Auxiliary if they want. The collection of that business can only be on that Aux until the route grows to Regular route classification at which point they must find another Aux or collection route.
Mgmt removing the collection of a business will not change your evaluation since you are still delivering to that address. If you get the choice, remove heavy hitter section over low volume area. Keeping heavy hitters means struggling with the clock. Although your actual volume # won't change, physically it will.
My route came out to 57hr and some change. There are some grieveable things that would push me past the 57:36? threshold.
So I assume I'll be cut right?
So with that: I have 2 areas I would let go.
1. 3+ letter a box high # of box low mile section.
2. 1 letter a box low box high mile with some biz that ship about 10 pkg/day. I've been told that mngt can take a biz away and give it to the aux rt. To make dispatch.
It's choices like this I don't know what's best in light of the study. </blockquote>
Mgmt cannot take just one delivery address away but they can take a street or portion of a street (like 3000-6000 block). What they can do is put the "collection" of that business on a collection route or Auxiliary if they want. The collection of that business can only be on that Aux until the route grows to Regular route classification at which point they must find another Aux or collection route.
Mgmt removing the collection of a business will not change your evaluation since you are still delivering to that address. If you get the choice, remove heavy hitter section over low volume area. Keeping heavy hitters means struggling with the clock. Although your actual volume # won't change, physically it will.
D.B.Cooper
Active member
Once again, we're in the situation of not knowing the future of the time study and/or mail counts... which makes it more difficult to know what the right moves to be making are... <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
Morty
Well-known member
Right. Cause right now letters are the bread and butter. My heavy section, for example, gets a tray of DPS. While the other 400 boxes get a tray.
And the section that is shipping will only grow. There's a startup biz that started in a garage a few years ago and just built a huge factory. If pkg are the future, I'd want that, but then mngt could give the pickup to the aux and I'll lose that credit in a study implemented scenario. So I don't know what section is more beneficial to me. And I can't sign a high option.
I wonder if I could grieve to stay in overburdened status until the study is implemented?
And the section that is shipping will only grow. There's a startup biz that started in a garage a few years ago and just built a huge factory. If pkg are the future, I'd want that, but then mngt could give the pickup to the aux and I'll lose that credit in a study implemented scenario. So I don't know what section is more beneficial to me. And I can't sign a high option.
I wonder if I could grieve to stay in overburdened status until the study is implemented?
D.B.Cooper
Active member
Not knowing the details of the study, and how, when, and IF, it will be implemented makes it difficult, if not impossible to make the right moves now following this count...
The NRLCA SHOULD be providing people the info that they NEED to make the wise decisions here... just sayin'... but all we hear is crickets... <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
The NRLCA SHOULD be providing people the info that they NEED to make the wise decisions here... just sayin'... but all we hear is crickets... <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
OutHereSomewhere
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Morty said </strong>
My route came out to 57hr and some change. There are some grieveable things that would push me past the 57:36? threshold.
So I assume I'll be cut right?
So with that: I have 2 areas I would let go.
1. 3+ letter a box high # of box low mile section.
2. 1 letter a box low box high mile with some biz that ship about 10 pkg/day. I've been told that mngt can take a biz away and give it to the aux rt. To make dispatch.
It's choices like this I don't know what's best in light of the study. </blockquote>
I've always been told, and had heard it when I got it, that my route is the worst route in the office. It's an old aux route, so basically, I got all the crap nobody else wanted. In other words, dump the crap you don't want...if you can.
If it was me, I would go for the miles over the volume. Simply because, when counts come around, mail always disappears, miles don't. It's 12 minutes a mile no matter what, and they can't screw with that like they can with the mail volume.
My only concern with what you're saying is, do you have a big enough vehicle to haul all those packages? If you're LLV, then I wouldn't worry about that. If you're POV, I would be concerned.
My route came out to 57hr and some change. There are some grieveable things that would push me past the 57:36? threshold.
So I assume I'll be cut right?
So with that: I have 2 areas I would let go.
1. 3+ letter a box high # of box low mile section.
2. 1 letter a box low box high mile with some biz that ship about 10 pkg/day. I've been told that mngt can take a biz away and give it to the aux rt. To make dispatch.
It's choices like this I don't know what's best in light of the study. </blockquote>
I've always been told, and had heard it when I got it, that my route is the worst route in the office. It's an old aux route, so basically, I got all the crap nobody else wanted. In other words, dump the crap you don't want...if you can.
If it was me, I would go for the miles over the volume. Simply because, when counts come around, mail always disappears, miles don't. It's 12 minutes a mile no matter what, and they can't screw with that like they can with the mail volume.
My only concern with what you're saying is, do you have a big enough vehicle to haul all those packages? If you're LLV, then I wouldn't worry about that. If you're POV, I would be concerned.
D.B.Cooper
Active member
Seems to me that nobody *really* believes mail counts are going away, contrary to what we've been told about this time study nonsense... <img title="Confused" alt="Confused" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif" />
FrozenToes
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<strong>Morty said </strong>
Can we start a thread on whats next now that you know youre getting cut?
For those that shot past 45k:
Things we should know, things to avoid. What you should include in your letter.
</blockquote>
Something to read. Go to WIRLCA. Look at Newsletters. Click on NOV.-DEC. 2017. Back of issue has suggestions for overburdened route cuts. ( pg.32-33)
<strong>Morty said </strong>
Can we start a thread on whats next now that you know youre getting cut?
For those that shot past 45k:
Things we should know, things to avoid. What you should include in your letter.
</blockquote>
Something to read. Go to WIRLCA. Look at Newsletters. Click on NOV.-DEC. 2017. Back of issue has suggestions for overburdened route cuts. ( pg.32-33)
OutHereSomewhere
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>PastOThirty said </strong>
Miles can’t be cut until the consequences of the study all but force them to mandate “community mailboxes” at each intersection off a delivery trunk-line. </blockquote>
They'll have to grandfather in all the current boxes, unless they want an open revolt from our "customers." That means that most of us will be retired by the time that even half of our boxes become "community mailboxes."
Miles can’t be cut until the consequences of the study all but force them to mandate “community mailboxes” at each intersection off a delivery trunk-line. </blockquote>
They'll have to grandfather in all the current boxes, unless they want an open revolt from our "customers." That means that most of us will be retired by the time that even half of our boxes become "community mailboxes."
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Morty said </strong>
Right. Cause right now letters are the bread and butter. My heavy section, for example, gets a tray of DPS. While the other 400 boxes get a tray.
And the section that is shipping will only grow. There's a startup biz that started in a garage a few years ago and just built a huge factory. If pkg are the future, I'd want that, but then mngt could give the pickup to the aux and I'll lose that credit in a study implemented scenario. So I don't know what section is more beneficial to me. And I can't sign a high option.
I wonder if I could grieve to stay in overburdened status until the study is implemented? </blockquote>
Our district (& I'm sure everywhere) is demanding that any route that's overburdened be cut to 43K. Plus... contract states that mgmt can cut overburdeneds so what's to grieve? It's not a contract violation nor is it disciplinary so nothing to be done unless they don't follow the few rules that exist on implementing cuts.
Seeing that the "Decision Maker" on the Study has not made a decision on the comments that were sent up, I understand the hush, hush from the PO & Union as too many peeps would try to take those possibilities as concrete.
Right. Cause right now letters are the bread and butter. My heavy section, for example, gets a tray of DPS. While the other 400 boxes get a tray.
And the section that is shipping will only grow. There's a startup biz that started in a garage a few years ago and just built a huge factory. If pkg are the future, I'd want that, but then mngt could give the pickup to the aux and I'll lose that credit in a study implemented scenario. So I don't know what section is more beneficial to me. And I can't sign a high option.
I wonder if I could grieve to stay in overburdened status until the study is implemented? </blockquote>
Our district (& I'm sure everywhere) is demanding that any route that's overburdened be cut to 43K. Plus... contract states that mgmt can cut overburdeneds so what's to grieve? It's not a contract violation nor is it disciplinary so nothing to be done unless they don't follow the few rules that exist on implementing cuts.
Seeing that the "Decision Maker" on the Study has not made a decision on the comments that were sent up, I understand the hush, hush from the PO & Union as too many peeps would try to take those possibilities as concrete.
