K day

[Vtpumpkinguy219]

I work in a formula office. Recently a route was posted in our office and on the description it says it has a Sat. K day. While speaking to my supervisor this morning, he informed that even know it's posted that way, the senior carrier will get the Sat. Can they post it as one thing and then change it after it's been bid on/awarded? Seems like false advertising.

 

[psd181]

nope if posted with a Saturday relief day it IS a Saturday relief day. Their mistake so they get to live with it. No one should have said anything until bidding was over.

 

[marked]

Yes they have to post it that way. Seniority/formula rules dictate who gets Saturday off. Saturday K day is not locked to the route, non Saturday K days ARE.

 

[psd181]

9.2.c.5.e. A recalculation of the formula occurs when one of the following has changed in an office: the number of regular routes that are authorized relief days, the number of auxil-iary routes, or the number of available leave replacements. Following a recalculation, the Employer may reassign the non-Saturday relief day. Such reassignment will be offered to rural carriers by seniority. If additional Saturday relief days are available, the Employer may then man-date the reassignment of the relief day by junior-ity. Any incentive provided for the relief day will cease upon such reassignment


Can't just change relief days anytime. Has to meet requirements of above contactual provision. So if they post the route with the wrong day, it's on them.

Yes they have to post it that way. Seniority/formula rules dictate who gets Saturday off. Saturday K day is not locked to the route, non Saturday K days ARE.

 

[psd181]

Yes they have to post it that way. Seniority/formula rules dictate who gets Saturday off. Saturday K day is not locked to the route, non Saturday K days ARE.

nope, relief day belongs to ROUTE, not the carrier. Seniority only matters when formula first invoked or recalculated. Sorry

 

[btdtret]

Vtpumpkinguy219 -- "I work in a formula office. Recently a route was posted in our office and on the description it says it has a Sat. K day. While speaking to my supervisor this morning, he informed that even know it's posted that way, the senior carrier will get the Sat. Can they post it as one thing and then change it after it's been bid on/awarded? Seems like false advertising."

-- False advertising by the USPS?? Oh come on now!!

-- While the relief day is supposed to stay with the route, there is a fly in the ointment, so to speak.

-- There is a Step 4 out there that has this:

- When awarding the residual ( K route ) to a PTF, substitute, or RCA, the relief day will be designated at the exclusive discretion of manglement. If the formula outlined in Article 9.2.C.5.b. requires assignment of a Saturday relief day, a non-Saturday relief day will be designated for the awarded route and a Saturday relief day will be offered to carriers with non-Saturday relief days in the office pursuant to Article 9.2.C.5.e.

-- So the BIG question is: what is the designation of whomever is likely to be awarded the route?

-- From your OP, sounds as if the awardee will be a PTF or RCA.

 

[FrozenToes]

9.2.c.5.e. A recalculation of the formula occurs when one of the following has changed in an office: the number of regular routes that are authorized relief days, the number of auxil-iary routes, or the number of available leave replacements. Following a recalculation, the Employer may reassign the non-Saturday relief day. Such reassignment will be offered to rural carriers by seniority. If additional Saturday relief days are available, the Employer may then man-date the reassignment of the relief day by junior-ity. Any incentive provided for the relief day will cease upon such reassignment


Can't just change relief days anytime. Has to meet requirements of above contactual provision. So if they post the route with the wrong day, it's on them.

In most cases, a leave replacement is becoming a regular. Doesn't this happening trigger a recalculation?

 

[neciat]

What about the part that says something like " a relief day may be changed provided it is agreeable between the Postmaster and the carrier" or words to that effect ? Does this NOT apply to formula office carriers ?

 

[marked]

9.2.c.5.d.The following actions will occur in the order presented until the required number of K routes with relief days other than Saturday is reached:

(1) Any regular rural carrier assigned to a K route with a Saturday relief day may elect to permanently change the relief day to another day (including Friday/Saturday rotating), provided the new relief day will assist in reaching the required number of routes with relief days other than Saturday.

 

[Morty]

In most cases, a leave replacement is becoming a regular. Doesn't this happening trigger a recalculation?

Yes. Then the senior carrier gets Saturday.

 

[neciat]

@marked I knew about that part. I was referring to this which is in the P.O.M. ( Postal Operations Manual ) 651.1 that says this

Note: Authorized relief days are granted on Saturdays unless another day is desired by the regular carrier and is mutually agreeable to the postmaster and carrier. For J routes, the postmaster may schedule the relief day on either the first or second Saturday of the pay period​

Unless, of course, formula offices are their own subset bound by the Article 9 guidelines which would make them exempt from the above.

 

[psd181]

In most cases, a leave replacement is becoming a regular. Doesn't this happening trigger a recalculation?

it might depends on office

 

[psd181]

Vtpumpkinguy219 -- "I work in a formula office. Recently a route was posted in our office and on the description it says it has a Sat. K day. While speaking to my supervisor this morning, he informed that even know it's posted that way, the senior carrier will get the Sat. Can they post it as one thing and then change it after it's been bid on/awarded? Seems like false advertising."

-- False advertising by the USPS?? Oh come on now!!

-- While the relief day is supposed to stay with the route, there is a fly in the ointment, so to speak.

-- There is a Step 4 out there that has this:

- When awarding the residual ( K route ) to a PTF, substitute, or RCA, the relief day will be designated at the exclusive discretion of manglement. If the formula outlined in Article 9.2.C.5.b. requires assignment of a Saturday relief day, a non-Saturday relief day will be designated for the awarded route and a Saturday relief day will be offered to carriers with non-Saturday relief days in the office pursuant to Article 9.2.C.5.e.

-- So the BIG question is: what is the designation of whomever is likely to be awarded the route?

-- From your OP, sounds as if the awardee will be a PTF or RCA.

yep, if posted route goes to another regular, that regular will have Saturday off since it was posted that way. If a leave replacement gets posted route, then it remains Saturday. But if Leave replacement gets a residual route, then changes can occur for the leave replacement's day off.

 

[PapahSmurf]

nope if posted with a Saturday relief day it IS a Saturday relief day. Their mistake so they get to live with it. No one should have said anything until bidding was over.

Didn’t work that way for me.

A route was posted with a Friday relief day, the senior carrier to me that bid on that route and was awarded it had a Saturday relief day.
My relief day was Wednesday until I took over his residual route with the Saturday relief day.

When it was all said and done he kept his Saturday relief day, I was changed to Friday and the junior carrier to me that went full time got my Wednesday.

Seniority is the only thing that matters with Saturday relief days.

 

[gotstamps]

@marked I knew about that part. I was referring to this which is in the P.O.M. ( Postal Operations Manual ) 651.1 that says this

Note: Authorized relief days are granted on Saturdays unless another day is desired by the regular carrier and is mutually agreeable to the postmaster and carrier. For J routes, the postmaster may schedule the relief day on either the first or second Saturday of the pay period​

Unless, of course, formula offices are their own subset bound by the Article 9 guidelines which would make them exempt from the above.

This does not apply to Formula offices. Mgmt has a Maximum # of non-Saturday Relief Days so they cannot just change a Relief Day from or to Saturday or any other day without asking carriers by Seniority first.

 

[gotstamps]

In most cases, a leave replacement is becoming a regular. Doesn't this happening trigger a recalculation?

Sometimes. Depends on hiring as it can happen that mgmt gets a new RCA trained by the time a the winning bids take possession of their routes.

 

[gotstamps]

I work in a formula office. Recently a route was posted in our office and on the description it says it has a Sat. K day. While speaking to my supervisor this morning, he informed that even know it's posted that way, the senior carrier will get the Sat. Can they post it as one thing and then change it after it's been bid on/awarded? Seems like false advertising.

Mgmt can only take a Saturday from a route IF the Saturday route would be going to a sub-going-regular. It doesn’t matter if it’s the posted route or residual nor whether a recalculation of the formula shows that a Saturday needs to be added.

A sub going Regular on a Saturday route is the ONLY time mgmt can pull that Saturday & offer to Regs by Seniority. If there are no takers then mgmt can either leave the Saturday on that route or IF a recalculation shows mgmt can pull that Saturday and assign a different day to the NEW Regular.
We can only force mgmt to ADD Saturdays when the Formula Recalculation shows the need. We cannot enforce removing Saturday Relief Days.

Now… if by chance a Junior Carrier wins a route with a Saturday Relief Day, mgmt CANNOT pull that Saturday from the Junior to give to a Senior. Mgmt would have to follow Formula recalculation rules. Mgmt can ONLY pull from a NEW Carrier to give to a Senior.

 

[junkchucker]

When I went regular, my route came with Saturday as my day off. Soon after, our office went formula and because I was the most junior regular, my day off was moved to Wednesday. When another carrier retired a couple years later, management gave me the option to have my Saturday back. I took it and now the most junior carrier has Wednesday off.

 

[Morty]

When I went regular, my route came with Saturday as my day off. Soon after, our office went formula and because I was the most junior regular, my day off was moved to Wednesday. When another carrier retired a couple years later, management gave me the option to have my Saturday back. I took it and now the most junior carrier has Wednesday off.

I'm curious if you or the other carrier took the financial benefit given under our contract to choose a Tue-Thur relief? Or did management conveniently forget to tell you?

 

[PapahSmurf]

I'm curious if you or the other carrier took the financial benefit given under our contract to choose a Tue-Thur relief? Or did management conveniently forget to tell you?

What’s the financial benefit?