Can I refuse to help another RCA? Maybe I just need to vent...

littlesew&sew · Nov 6, 2017

I will start by saying that I have no problem helping another RCA that's new or has an issue come up that requires assistance.

But when an RCA has been on their primary route for a year, still can't make evaluation, and barely makes the the truck, I have an issue with being required to help. The regulars and other subs in our office make or beat evaluation for most of the year. We have high mileage, moderate volume routes through significantly rural territory. Most of us will come in at or a little above evaluation once holiday volume and winter roads hit.

I showed up about 10 minutes early Saturday because I had plans after work. I was hoping to get done early. (By now I should know better) The other subs were already in the office working mail. The two slowest ones had been in the office for an hour before I got there. It was announced by our 204b that we are allowed to curtail mail in order to make evaluation; the regular carriers in our office were told the same earlier in the week. Our parcel truck was almost an hour late. One of the slower subs curtailed at least 60" of mail.

When I got back from the route, 204b checks where other subs are to make sure I don't have to go out to help.

REALLY? After curtailing 60" of mail, been on the route for a year, coming in an hour early, having an extra hour due to the late truck, still not even coming close to evaluated time AND you want me to help... um, NO...

I have started telling the 204b of the day, "You're the supervisor. If you require me to go assist the other RCA, give me a direct order, and I will help. However, if you're asking if I want to help the answer is NO."

I don't see this directly addressed in the contract. I would assume that I'm required to help.

It's just beyond frustrating that there's no pressure put on these slower subs to increase their efficiency in the office or on the street and they're still given help. After about three months on the job, I was expected to make evaluation on my primary route, no early reporting on any route, and do my job completely without assistance in every situation.

btdtret · Nov 6, 2017

littlesew&sew -- "I will start by saying that I have no problem helping another RCA that’s new or has an issue come up that requires assistance. But when an RCA has been on their primary route for a year, still can’t make evaluation, and barely makes the the truck, I have an issue with being required to help."

-- I can see where you are coming from. For starters, you could blame the PMG for her edict to "keep RCA's at all costs". Obviously some PM's are actually heeding that edict.

-- But.. as for the RCA in question - even though the RCA has been on the primary route for a year, how many actual times has the RCA run the route? Just running on a relief day, the could mean as few as 26 days for a J-route or 52-days for a K-route ( aside from any annual or sick days taken by the regular ). Running a route for just 26+ or 52+ days in a year, most likely that RCA will be far from proficient. It takes repetition, repetition, repetition as in day after day after day, not just once a week - IMHO.

-- Has anyone, including manglement, taken the time to look at the RCA's work habits, at least in the office, and provided some tips on how to lessen the office time? The same goes for observing how the RCA "sets up" the delivery vehicle.

-- Is manglement so short of personnel that they have to use 204b's at the end of the day?

"I have started telling the 204b of the day, “You’re the supervisor. If you require me to go assist the other RCA, give me a direct order, and I will help. However, if you’re asking if I want to help the answer is NO.”"

-- That certainly is one way to approach it!

" I don’t see this directly addressed in the contract. "

-- Page 50 of the contract: Leave replacements may be required to perform duties in addition to the route assignment, such as auxiliary assistance on other route, express mail, etc.

"It’s just beyond frustrating that there’s no pressure put on these slower subs to increase their efficiency in the office or on the street and they’re still given help. After about three months on the job, I was expected to make evaluation on my primary route, no early reporting on any route, and do my job completely without assistance in every situation. "

-- Times and situations have changed, and not always for the best. Back in the latter part of the last century, office OJT consisted of help case and then carry half the route, help case and then carry the other half of the route and on the 3rd day case and carry the entire route. Since people are not beating down the door to become RCA's, adjustments are being made to keep those already on the rolls.

trashistan · Nov 6, 2017

I totally get your frustration as well. I'v also come REALLY close to saying "I'm defying your direct order, goodnight." The bad part of this is that even without me helping, someone else will and the problem will continue to perpetuate. I've almost come to realize, if they won't fire that RCA for not doing their job (delivering a route), they won't fire me for not doing mine (obeying a direct order to assist).

littlesew&sew · Nov 6, 2017

Trashistan - Thanks for the understanding.

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">btdtret said 
l-- I can see where you are coming from. For starters, you could blame the PMG for her edict to "keep RCA's at all costs". Obviously some PM's are actually heeding that edict.

" I don’t see this directly addressed in the contract. "

-- Page 50 of the contract: Leave replacements may be required to perform duties in addition to the route assignment, such as auxiliary assistance on other route, express mail, etc.

"It’s just beyond frustrating that there’s no pressure put on these slower subs to increase their efficiency in the office or on the street and they’re still given help. After about three months on the job, I was expected to make evaluation on my primary route, no early reporting on any route, and do my job completely without assistance in every situation. "

-- Times and situations have changed, and not always for the best. Back in the latter part of the last century, office OJT consisted of help case and then carry half the route, help case and then carry the other half of the route and on the 3rd day case and carry the entire route. Since people are not beating down the door to become RCA's, adjustments are being made to keep those already on the rolls. </blockquote>
Thanks for the contract reference. Sometimes I just get so frustrated I read right over things.

In our office, yes, we're keeping RCAs at all costs - repeated unavailability is fine, misdeliveries are fine, only want to work on Sat is fine, hitting mailboxes fine - all the things that would have gotten my a** fired when I started are fine now.

Our office is a revolving door of OIC, 204b, acting supervisors - our PM took a higher level assignment haven't seen him in months - the grievances are piling up from all sides clerks, city carriers, and rurals.

As far as anyone saying something to the RCA about their glacial pace - NOPE, not happening. Supervisor told me one day that it was my job to tell the other RCA they needed to be faster. UM, nope, not my job. I am the other RCA's coworker not their supervisor.

When this sub first started, I was more than happy to give tips on speeding up - things like making only one trip to the throwback case - ignored. The most basic tip like getting a handful of flats and holding them rather than picking them up one at a time off the case - ignored. I and other subs tried to advise this sub on speeding up by loading their car correctly and not using a stick to open/close mailboxes - ignored and met with hostile disagreement. Tell me to my face that I don't know what I'm talking about - I'm done helping you.

This is a K route sub that hasn't had a lot of extra time on their route. The regular doesn't take a lot of time off. Still, I would hope that some significant improvement would have been made by now, but it hasn't. In our office the standard is low - if you can make the dispatch truck, you're fine.

I just wonder what kind of regular carrier this new "keep at all costs" type of RCA is going to be.

btdtret · Nov 6, 2017

PastOThirty -- "Saving a nickel to spend a dime. It is the postal way."

-- Could be the bean counters finally got upper manglement to see the folly in spending $8,000 to get someone from the street to the post office as an RCA and cutting the RCA loose in a matter of weeks is not really cost effective.

-- Can everyone remember how long it took to feel half-way competent with the RCA job?

EthelAnne · Nov 6, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">btdtret said 

-- Can everyone remember how long it took to feel half-way competent with the RCA job? </blockquote>
I know that it took me at least a year before I felt really competent on my primary (a high volume, J route). The newest RCA in our office, who has been with us now for about a year and a half, only a few months ago began making evaluation with any sort of consistency. The senior RCA (a twenty year old guy) only took a few months before he could easily beat the evaluation on any route in the office.

I understand @littlesewsew's frustration. I never received any assistance as an RCA when I started. There was no one to help even if they wanted to give me help. I struggled through 10, 11 hour days and got paid for 7 for a long, long time. Circumstances have changed and now that there is an effort made to keep RCAs, rather than burn through them like cannon fodder, you have RCAs available who can assist those who are slower to catch on. That wasn't an option before.

Is this better or is it worse? Personally, I'd rather go back out and assist another RCA for an hour or so than carry two routes or a route and a half because that "slower-to-catch-on" RCA quit. There's not an unlimited supply of people willing and able to do this job, as we all know from the struggle to hire RCAs.

EthelAnne · Nov 6, 2017

And I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing the OP's frustration, which I think is valid. I just got through a grievance where a regular carrier's leave was denied because the PM refused to split a route between the RCAs. When did splitting routes get taken off the table as an option????? When I was an RCA, we split routes just about every Saturday, and now suddenly we're not doing that anymore? (Oh, yes, we are. I won the grievance and the carrier got to take his leave.)

Deer Smearer · Nov 6, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">EthelAnne said 
And I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing the OP's frustration, which I think is valid. I just got through a grievance where a regular carrier's leave was denied because the PM refused to split a route between the RCAs. When did splitting routes get taken off the table as an option????? When I was an RCA, we split routes just about every Saturday, and now suddenly we're not doing that anymore? (Oh, yes, we are. I won the grievance and the carrier got to take his leave.) </blockquote>
What level did you win the grievance?

littlesew&sew · Nov 7, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">btdtret said 
-- Can everyone remember how long it took to feel half-way competent with the RCA job? </blockquote>
I started on a J route 130+ miles with an intermediate PO, and it was probably a good 6 months before I felt like I was competent at the job. I worked quite a few 10+ hour days. However, I knew that no one was going to come rescue me. There were two other RCAs in our office at the time that could have been sent out, but our PM at the time wouldn't send out assistance. When I was hired I was told my route was my responsibility. If I didn't think I would make the truck, I was to call the office and let them know, bring in all of my outgoing, and go back out and finish my route. Miss the truck with the outgoing and it was a 90 minute drive to the plant. I learned pretty quickly that if I wanted to keep my job, I needed to observe other carriers and figure out ways to be more efficient.

An RCA that's been around for a year shouldn't take almost an hour to put up a tray of DPS, should know what UBBM is by now, should be making ONE trip to the throwback case not wandering around the office with each piece asking clerks, city, carriers, other RCAs, and the supervisors what to do with it.

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">EthelAnne said 

Is this better or is it worse? Personally, I'd rather go back out and assist another RCA for an hour or so than carry two routes or a route and a half because that "slower-to-catch-on" RCA quit. There's not an unlimited supply of people willing and able to do this job, as we all know from the struggle to hire RCAs. </blockquote>
I'd rather the PO hire people that are actually suited for the job. But since that's not anywhere in the near future, I'd rather split a route than deal with helping someone who still can't get the job done.

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">PastOThirty said It is not slower rcas that get a little behind that is at issue. It is the omg, they left the office at 2:30, leaving a hamper of parcels besides after working the route many, many times with not an inordinate amount of mail for the day.

These are the people who make the slowest city carrier look fast. The must have an investment in dairy products, because it doesn’t seem to matter how badly they milk it. Then there is the reoccurring safety issues it creates when coworkers must work into the dark time and time again because farmer Tom can’t be bothered to step it up or step off. But hey, retention is better and 2080 is better. It counts as a win. </blockquote>
<blockquote>Exactly!</blockquote>

btdtret · Nov 7, 2017

PastOThirty et al -- "It is the omg, they left the office at 2:30"

-- That is entirely on manglement!! Make them manage instead of watching the computer monitor "PacMan" dots of other carriers already out on their routes.

-- Even if it means giving the regular assistance or 8127 pay the next day for curtailed mail, manglement has to make the call to get RCA's out of the office at a "reasonable" time.

-- At my last post office, regulars heading past the supervisor's desk late in the morning would mention the new RCA hasn't even started on parcels, etc, yet.

subpar · Nov 7, 2017

I'm a sub who is almost always over evaluation and I know many carriers at my post office felt how you feel about this sub about me at different times. I am more than competent and my primary route is one of the longest in my very large office and after a year and a half I still wonder around with pieces of mail that I have no clue what to do with...not often, but it happens. I'm not sure how busy your office is but we are getting hammered with mail and parcels right now and it's only going to get worse. I get that people hate "slow subs" and that some are not cut out for this job, but I have been out until after 9 helping both old and new carriers finish routes and I don't love doing it, but we do get paid for that time. Not to mention when it's dark out and I'm driving around a LLV that is already hard enough to see out of there is no way I am going to speed around rushing and hit someone or wreck because I want to be that sub who gets done early. I'm not trying to defend this sub, but maybe try to see it from another perspective?

btdtret · Nov 7, 2017

subpar -- " I get that people hate “slow subs”"

-- Not to worry about it. "Those" people seem to have forgotten that they were the "slow sub" in the office at one time or another.

-- Keep giving it your best effort.

" I still wonder around with pieces of mail that I have no clue what to do with…not often, but it happens. "

-- Take the offending mail piece to manglement -- that is part of their job description, whether they want to admit it or not.

" when it’s dark out and I’m driving around a LLV "

-- That is the time to become the tortoise -- slow but sure.

-- Would really like to be the proverbial fly on the wall once the next round of contract talks to see just how much under-time the USPS will be claiming this time.

oi veh. · Nov 7, 2017

@subpar, I would rather my sub be slow and accurate. Every route is different. Keep your chin up. You sound like a keeper.

However, I do see littlesew&sew's point...and angst. It seems like lately we are just hiring the dregs of society (take a gander at Postal Times) as well as people who just do. not. give. a. rat's. posterior. about doing a job well. Us oldtimers, regulars and subs alike, remember when no one's hand was held...it was sink or swim - survival of the fittest.

trashistan · Nov 7, 2017

<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">btdtret said 
PastOThirty et al -- "It is the omg, they left the office at 2:30"

-- That is entirely on manglement!! Make them manage instead of watching the computer monitor "PacMan" dots of other carriers already out on their routes.

-- Even if it means giving the regular assistance or 8127 pay the next day for curtailed mail, manglement has to make the call to get RCA's out of the office at a "reasonable" time.

-- At my last post office, regulars heading past the supervisor's desk late in the morning would mention the new RCA hasn't even started on parcels, etc, yet. </blockquote>
This, I think, is exactly what the OP was saying. The outcome of management getting involved is inevitably telling littlesew&sew to go help the sub who left the office at a reasonable time with DPS on the side and no parcels marked and some redplums with NO chance of getting back before 9pm.

I think we agree, but the proper course of management realizing some subs (not all, as subpar pointed out) are not cut out and should be let go, is never the outcome. Hence the venting <img title="Smile" alt="Smile" src="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-smile.gif" />

littlesew&sew · Nov 7, 2017

subpar - I don't "hate" the slower subs. If you're continually improving your time and actually move your feet while you're on the workroom floor, I have no problem. But the sub that puts up letters/flats one at a time, moves around the workroom at the speed of a snail, and doesn't drive over 20 mph when there's several miles between boxes - and after a year still barely makes the truck - I've got a problem with that one.

I remember days of crying on the route thinking I would never get done. I remember making dispatch by the skin of my teeth. And I remember being told by my postmaster after about three months on the job - "Start improving your times and get closer to evaluation, or you're out of here." Our office went through quite a few subs that couldn't improve their times who were eventually fired or quit before the "keep at all costs" started.

As the weather changes in my area, I will be one of the slowest carriers in our office. I drive VERY slowly on any type of slick/snowy road. So very shortly, someone can come here and post about the sub in their office that takes all day on the route because of the snow/ice.

shyflyrebelguy · Nov 7, 2017

The definition of a good carrier is totally different if you ask management vs. a seasoned carrier. Management only cares about speed. Rush back so they can give you more work. A carrier will tell you a good carrier is one who works in a safe manner, delivers the correct mail, maintains their case/route, etc. I have a large amount of cbu with a high turnover rate. I fill ubbm tub in 2 or 3 days. I empty tub when I'm off the next day. Usually when I come in the next day there are only a couple pieces of mail in there. The subs who are fast on my route cut corners. They leave cbu unlocked, start early off the clock, misdeliver parcels. There is one sub that reads names and brings back anything that doesn't match the label in the box. I would much rather come into a half tub of mail the next day then to have all mail delivered.