olewhatshername
New member
Can the Scanner Detect Every Stop a Carrier Makes During Any Given Day? Each Box? If so, how long does this information stay in the Scanner? Thank You.
Can the Scanner Detect Every Stop a Carriers Makes During Any Given Day
- Thread starter olewhatshername
- Start date
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>PastOThirty said </strong>
Can it? Yes.
Will it? Maybe.
Will it be accurate? Maybe.
Is it infallible? No.
Management will suggest it is without doubt, and even some stewards who are technology challenged will defer to those claims, but it is still not that solid that it can be the basis of discipline. Aid in accumulation of evidence, but not evidence on its own. </blockquote>
I am not a tech expert but if the scanner is not on you it can't detect your movements.
Can it? Yes.
Will it? Maybe.
Will it be accurate? Maybe.
Is it infallible? No.
Management will suggest it is without doubt, and even some stewards who are technology challenged will defer to those claims, but it is still not that solid that it can be the basis of discipline. Aid in accumulation of evidence, but not evidence on its own. </blockquote>
I am not a tech expert but if the scanner is not on you it can't detect your movements.
olewhatshername
New member
That is my problem...PastOThirty.....Technology baffles me...ha ha My PM at the intermediate office showed me how the system works on the computer. Didn't have time to go into detail but I seem to remember the carrier could be followed by a blue dot system. has your speed, if you come to a stop...just different data. I wonder, does it keep the information so it can be recalled? Thank you for any help.
Rt2mailman
Well-known member
Those blue dots you saw show every day where you go and leave parcels, and will be used to get the footage you walk for the study. So yes a trail is kept. If you murder some one while on your route, don't take your scanner with you when you bury the body,because they will be able to see where you went.
OutHereSomewhere
Well-known member
My understanding is that it does both track you, and a recording of your trip/trips around the route is made. So they can go back and look up a specific date, hit play, and watch as you go around a route. I've heard that from both a PM and a State Steward.
My only problem with the GPS stuff is that I know, for a fact, that it's not accurate in measuring both distance and speed. There are different levels, for lack of a better term, of GPS encryption. The one the military has access to is accurate to within a foot. The one that's available to the public can be off as much as 10% in both speed and mileage. I would wager that the encryption level of the one the USPS is using on these scanners is the latter of the two.
My only problem with the GPS stuff is that I know, for a fact, that it's not accurate in measuring both distance and speed. There are different levels, for lack of a better term, of GPS encryption. The one the military has access to is accurate to within a foot. The one that's available to the public can be off as much as 10% in both speed and mileage. I would wager that the encryption level of the one the USPS is using on these scanners is the latter of the two.
MiddleOfNowhere
Well-known member
i think you guys are underestimating the accuracy of gps. the original gps was only accurate to about 50 feet on location, but newer technology is way, way better. a would say the speed is accurate to .01%, and location to within a foot. do some reading, to see how this has changed with more satellites. i don't think this information stays in the scanner that long, but is uploaded to the office every minute or so. they have constant eyes on you, and even get a warning if you've stopped for 5 minutes. when you write down 6 minutes for a flat tire or break, it had best be 6 minutes.
they know if your moving, how fast, and where you are, at all times. don't kid yourself.
they know if your moving, how fast, and where you are, at all times. don't kid yourself.
FrozenToes
Well-known member
My understanding of the scanner was that it used both GPS and Cellular to obtain data ( speed and location). It's called A-GPS or assisted GPS. Look up the accuracy. It's a simple Google search. Real world , the speed indicated seems close to my driving habits. The location is either pretty spot on or way off.
Why isn't this technology used to show actual mileage for a route? I have made the argument to both management and the association that the center line of travel used to determine a routes mileage does not actually reflect the distance to serve mail receptacles on a route. How many carriers can service a curbside box from the centerline of a road?
<a class="spLink spProfilePage" title="" href="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/forum/profile/4208/">Yee_Ha</a> says <strong>"Why isn’t this technology used to show actual mileage for a route?"</strong> I am part of the route study and we enter our beginning mileage and returning mileage every day into our scanners. I suppose that will determine the routes actual mileage.
OutHereSomewhere
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Cangonow said </strong>
<a class="spLink spProfilePage" title="" href="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/forum/profile/4208/">Yee_Ha</a> says <strong>"Why isn’t this technology used to show actual mileage for a route?"</strong> I am part of the route study and we enter our beginning mileage and returning mileage every day into our scanners. I suppose that will determine the routes actual mileage. </blockquote>
I thought they were going to use the mileage that the GPS shows us with?
<a class="spLink spProfilePage" title="" href="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/forum/profile/4208/">Yee_Ha</a> says <strong>"Why isn’t this technology used to show actual mileage for a route?"</strong> I am part of the route study and we enter our beginning mileage and returning mileage every day into our scanners. I suppose that will determine the routes actual mileage. </blockquote>
I thought they were going to use the mileage that the GPS shows us with?
OutHereSomewhere
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>MiddleOfNowhere said </strong>
i think you guys are underestimating the accuracy of gps. the original gps was only accurate to about 50 feet on location, but newer technology is way, way better. a would say the speed is accurate to .01%, and location to within a foot. do some reading, to see how this has changed with more satellites. i don't think this information stays in the scanner that long, but is uploaded to the office every minute or so. they have constant eyes on you, and even get a warning if you've stopped for 5 minutes. when you write down 6 minutes for a flat tire or break, it had best be 6 minutes.
they know if your moving, how fast, and where you are, at all times. don't kid yourself. </blockquote>
I know that GPS is inaccurate because of a discussion I had on the side of an interstate highway with a state trooper. My GPS gizmo, this is in my private vehicle, showed me going 72mph, in a 70mph zone, when the trooper's radar clocked me at 76mph. Now either the GPS was wrong, or his radar, which had been re-calibrated that month, was wrong.
As for distance, those things do not properly calculate distances if you're going up and down hills. Let's say you're going from point A to point B, which is up and down a hill. GPS measures the distance from point A to point B, which lets say is 1 mile. If you count going up the hill, and then back down it, the actual distance you travel will be greater. But the GPS will show you only went that 1 mile. Will it be a considerable distance difference? No. But add all those up and down the hills over a 100 mile route, and even a few percentage is going to show several miles less than what you actually traveled. Now to most ordinary citizens that's not going to mean much. But to us, that could cost us an hour, or more, a week in pay.
i think you guys are underestimating the accuracy of gps. the original gps was only accurate to about 50 feet on location, but newer technology is way, way better. a would say the speed is accurate to .01%, and location to within a foot. do some reading, to see how this has changed with more satellites. i don't think this information stays in the scanner that long, but is uploaded to the office every minute or so. they have constant eyes on you, and even get a warning if you've stopped for 5 minutes. when you write down 6 minutes for a flat tire or break, it had best be 6 minutes.
they know if your moving, how fast, and where you are, at all times. don't kid yourself. </blockquote>
I know that GPS is inaccurate because of a discussion I had on the side of an interstate highway with a state trooper. My GPS gizmo, this is in my private vehicle, showed me going 72mph, in a 70mph zone, when the trooper's radar clocked me at 76mph. Now either the GPS was wrong, or his radar, which had been re-calibrated that month, was wrong.
As for distance, those things do not properly calculate distances if you're going up and down hills. Let's say you're going from point A to point B, which is up and down a hill. GPS measures the distance from point A to point B, which lets say is 1 mile. If you count going up the hill, and then back down it, the actual distance you travel will be greater. But the GPS will show you only went that 1 mile. Will it be a considerable distance difference? No. But add all those up and down the hills over a 100 mile route, and even a few percentage is going to show several miles less than what you actually traveled. Now to most ordinary citizens that's not going to mean much. But to us, that could cost us an hour, or more, a week in pay.
<a class="spLink spProfilePage" title="" href="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/forum/profile/505/">OutHereSomewhere</a> says <strong>"I thought they were going to use the mileage that the GPS shows us with?"</strong> All I can tell you is that we must enter our beginning and ending mileage each day. Whether they are going to use that or something that is GPS determined is anyone's question. Entering vehicle odometer readings would account for all of your mileage (including going down long driveways for parcels) but the accuracy of the odometer could always be questioned. After all these LLV's are over 20 years old.
The odometers, well at least the one in my LLV and another; is not accurate. What the supervisor's car and my own personal vehicle record as 36 miles (centerline of road) the LLV registers as 32 miles. Another LLV (aux route reserve) registers 40 miles when utilized to deliver route. This goes back to my question what carrier can service a curbside box from the center of a road?
olewhatshername
New member
And....Yee_Ha.....that brings up another point and a pet peeve of mine......With the scanner study (thank you very much Cangonow and everyone else that is in the study)they are going to get a much better idea of the actual miles we travel each day. Actual miles means all those miles we travel in the 1/2 mile rule that we get no monetary compensation for. Never heard of a company that ask their Employees to do this much free stuff....and expect their Postal Pulse survey to reflex positive, happy, upbeat results. DUH.
heyman1104
New member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>OutHereSomewhere said </strong>
I know that GPS is inaccurate because of a discussion I had on the side of an interstate highway with a state trooper. My GPS gizmo, this is in my private vehicle, showed me going 72mph, in a 70mph zone, when the trooper's radar clocked me at 76mph. Now either the GPS was wrong, or his radar, which had been re-calibrated that month, was wrong.
As for distance, those things do not properly calculate distances if you're going up and down hills. Let's say you're going from point A to point B, which is up and down a hill. GPS measures the distance from point A to point B, which lets say is 1 mile. If you count going up the hill, and then back down it, the actual distance you travel will be greater. But the GPS will show you only went that 1 mile. Will it be a considerable distance difference? No. But add all those up and down the hills over a 100 mile route, and even a few percentage is going to show several miles less than what you actually traveled. Now to most ordinary citizens that's not going to mean much. But to us, that could cost us an hour, or more, a week in pay. </blockquote>
Regular standalone GPS rely entirely on satellites, which are inaccurate for several reasons which I will not really go into. AGPS's, like the setup in your phone, are much more accurate, essentially because they ping nearby wifi routers as you pass them. So your phone's GPS might have had you closer to the trooper's reading.
As far as vehicle speedometer/odometer accuracy, if you're running a tire size that is bigger than the stock setup, the speed reflected on your vehicle's speedometer will be slower and the mileage lower. The reverse is true of running smaller sizes. Case in point, my 2002 Blazer's stock tire size is 235/75/R15. On those tires, my drive to one area office shows as 40 miles almost exactly. On the 225/70/r15s that I was running up until last week, it was showing almost 43 miles and the speedometer was showing about 3-4 mph higher than my phone's AGPS speedometer app at highway speeds.
So, if your PM ever wants you to measure your route's length using your vehicle, downsize your tires before the ride.
Just a little food for thought.
I know that GPS is inaccurate because of a discussion I had on the side of an interstate highway with a state trooper. My GPS gizmo, this is in my private vehicle, showed me going 72mph, in a 70mph zone, when the trooper's radar clocked me at 76mph. Now either the GPS was wrong, or his radar, which had been re-calibrated that month, was wrong.
As for distance, those things do not properly calculate distances if you're going up and down hills. Let's say you're going from point A to point B, which is up and down a hill. GPS measures the distance from point A to point B, which lets say is 1 mile. If you count going up the hill, and then back down it, the actual distance you travel will be greater. But the GPS will show you only went that 1 mile. Will it be a considerable distance difference? No. But add all those up and down the hills over a 100 mile route, and even a few percentage is going to show several miles less than what you actually traveled. Now to most ordinary citizens that's not going to mean much. But to us, that could cost us an hour, or more, a week in pay. </blockquote>
Regular standalone GPS rely entirely on satellites, which are inaccurate for several reasons which I will not really go into. AGPS's, like the setup in your phone, are much more accurate, essentially because they ping nearby wifi routers as you pass them. So your phone's GPS might have had you closer to the trooper's reading.
As far as vehicle speedometer/odometer accuracy, if you're running a tire size that is bigger than the stock setup, the speed reflected on your vehicle's speedometer will be slower and the mileage lower. The reverse is true of running smaller sizes. Case in point, my 2002 Blazer's stock tire size is 235/75/R15. On those tires, my drive to one area office shows as 40 miles almost exactly. On the 225/70/r15s that I was running up until last week, it was showing almost 43 miles and the speedometer was showing about 3-4 mph higher than my phone's AGPS speedometer app at highway speeds.
So, if your PM ever wants you to measure your route's length using your vehicle, downsize your tires before the ride.
Just a little food for thought.
OutHereSomewhere
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>heyman1104 said </strong>
Regular standalone GPS rely entirely on satellites, which are inaccurate for several reasons which I will not really go into. AGPS's, like the setup in your phone, are much more accurate, essentially because<strong> they ping nearby wifi routers</strong> as you pass them. So <strong>your phone's GPS might have had you closer to the trooper's reading.</strong>
<strong>As far as vehicle speedometer/odometer accuracy, if you're running a tire size that is bigger than the stock setup, the speed reflected on your vehicle's speedometer will be slower and the mileage lower.</strong> The reverse is true of running smaller sizes. Case in point, my 2002 Blazer's stock tire size is 235/75/R15. On those tires, my drive to one area office shows as 40 miles almost exactly. On the 225/70/r15s that I was running up until last week, it was showing almost 43 miles and the speedometer was showing about 3-4 mph higher than my phone's AGPS speedometer app at highway speeds.
So, if your PM ever wants you to measure your route's length using your vehicle, downsize your tires before the ride.
Just a little food for thought. </blockquote>
The problem with that, and I don't dispute what you are saying, is I go way out in the middle of nowhere. Cell towers are few and far between out there. There's not a lot of routers for them to ping out there.
I actually knew/know that. My local brake and tire shop told me that years ago. I always run oversized tires, and my odometer always comes in under the "official" mileage. Back when I first made regular, I had a PM follow me in another vehicle for the entire route. His odometer came out almost exactly on the official mileage, mine came in almost 6 miles under.
I should add the point about me using oversized tires has to do with availability of tires. Once again going by what my brake and tire shop tells me, manufacturers put odd sized, meaning small, OEM tires on vehicles. The reason for that being that they are cheaper. Less rubber, less cost. You can get a much wider selection of tires by going to larger than OEM tires.
Regular standalone GPS rely entirely on satellites, which are inaccurate for several reasons which I will not really go into. AGPS's, like the setup in your phone, are much more accurate, essentially because<strong> they ping nearby wifi routers</strong> as you pass them. So <strong>your phone's GPS might have had you closer to the trooper's reading.</strong>
<strong>As far as vehicle speedometer/odometer accuracy, if you're running a tire size that is bigger than the stock setup, the speed reflected on your vehicle's speedometer will be slower and the mileage lower.</strong> The reverse is true of running smaller sizes. Case in point, my 2002 Blazer's stock tire size is 235/75/R15. On those tires, my drive to one area office shows as 40 miles almost exactly. On the 225/70/r15s that I was running up until last week, it was showing almost 43 miles and the speedometer was showing about 3-4 mph higher than my phone's AGPS speedometer app at highway speeds.
So, if your PM ever wants you to measure your route's length using your vehicle, downsize your tires before the ride.
Just a little food for thought. </blockquote>
The problem with that, and I don't dispute what you are saying, is I go way out in the middle of nowhere. Cell towers are few and far between out there. There's not a lot of routers for them to ping out there.
I actually knew/know that. My local brake and tire shop told me that years ago. I always run oversized tires, and my odometer always comes in under the "official" mileage. Back when I first made regular, I had a PM follow me in another vehicle for the entire route. His odometer came out almost exactly on the official mileage, mine came in almost 6 miles under.
I should add the point about me using oversized tires has to do with availability of tires. Once again going by what my brake and tire shop tells me, manufacturers put odd sized, meaning small, OEM tires on vehicles. The reason for that being that they are cheaper. Less rubber, less cost. You can get a much wider selection of tires by going to larger than OEM tires.
OutHereSomewhere
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>Cangonow said </strong>
<a class="spLink spProfilePage" title="" href="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/forum/profile/505/">OutHereSomewhere</a> says <strong>"I thought they were going to use the mileage that the GPS shows us with?"</strong> All I can tell you is that we must enter our beginning and ending mileage each day. Whether they are going to use that or something that is GPS determined is anyone's question. Entering vehicle odometer readings would account for all of your mileage (including going down long driveways for parcels) but the accuracy of the odometer could always be questioned. After all these LLV's are over 20 years old. </blockquote>
I think that has more to do with keeping track of how many miles the LLV has on it than to determine the mileage of your route. I say that only because a city carrier told me they have to do that. There's no other reason a city carrier would need to do that than for the bean counters to have, yet another, number to fiddle with in order to look busy.
<a class="spLink spProfilePage" title="" href="https://www.ruralmailtalk.ruralinfo.net/forum/profile/505/">OutHereSomewhere</a> says <strong>"I thought they were going to use the mileage that the GPS shows us with?"</strong> All I can tell you is that we must enter our beginning and ending mileage each day. Whether they are going to use that or something that is GPS determined is anyone's question. Entering vehicle odometer readings would account for all of your mileage (including going down long driveways for parcels) but the accuracy of the odometer could always be questioned. After all these LLV's are over 20 years old. </blockquote>
I think that has more to do with keeping track of how many miles the LLV has on it than to determine the mileage of your route. I say that only because a city carrier told me they have to do that. There's no other reason a city carrier would need to do that than for the bean counters to have, yet another, number to fiddle with in order to look busy.
gotstamps
Well-known member
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><strong>OutHereSomewhere said </strong>
I think that has more to do with keeping track of how many miles the LLV has on it than to determine the mileage of your route. I say that only because a city carrier told me they have to do that. There's no other reason a city carrier would need to do that than for the bean counters to have, yet another, number to fiddle with in order to look busy. </blockquote>
All LLV routes have to report the start mileage & end mileage. It's also supposed to be reported on Sundays & when used/borrowed after a carrier has completed their route. The 'bean counters' keep track of fuel consumption along with when a LLV needs oil changes, tune-ups, etc. I typically run 24-26 miles a day although I'm routed at 21 miles. All those extra 1/2 mile 'parcels-to-the-door' really add up!
I think that has more to do with keeping track of how many miles the LLV has on it than to determine the mileage of your route. I say that only because a city carrier told me they have to do that. There's no other reason a city carrier would need to do that than for the bean counters to have, yet another, number to fiddle with in order to look busy. </blockquote>
All LLV routes have to report the start mileage & end mileage. It's also supposed to be reported on Sundays & when used/borrowed after a carrier has completed their route. The 'bean counters' keep track of fuel consumption along with when a LLV needs oil changes, tune-ups, etc. I typically run 24-26 miles a day although I'm routed at 21 miles. All those extra 1/2 mile 'parcels-to-the-door' really add up!
