Drats! The New Vans!

Gotrope

Well-known member
Btw, people should time themselves stopping for gas. 4.5 minutes isn't cutting it out here. At the new station with fast pumps it averages about 5:20 for me. Longer if I need to walk in for a receipt. But we have the auto vacuum hoses that shut off every half gallon due to vapor loss. I'm sure in GA you could fill 11 gallons in 4.5 minutes.
 

Old Fart

Well-known member
Bukowski -- [ time and $ loss from getting a Metris ]

-- All good questions.

-- Since the NRLCA has opened the doors to social media, why not send your questions to NRLCA HQ? ( better be a member if an answer is expected! )

-- If you will note on the 4241-M time comparison chart, RRECS only mentions "Inspect Government Vehicle" and "Fuel Vehicle" with no specific reference to LLV, FFV, or Metris. Granted, Metris came along after the August 2018 issue of the national magazine.

-- Have not seen nor heard of any NRLCA efforts to change / redo RRECS LLV "standards" and apply them to the Metris. Anyone??

-- More than likely both the USPS and NRLCA will just consider the Metris a "postal-provided" vehicle.

-- Don't forget it was all but impossible to get to the cargo area from the cab of the FFV. ( never used one, but did get to inspect one - long ago )

-- Diving deeper in the the 4241-M tables:

- Case DPS Letters - With ( and without ) Gov Vehicle = 0.0294 mpp and that is only for second-run DPS and fewer than 400 pieces per day

- Case DPS Flats - Without Gov Vehicle = 0.0708 mpp -- weekly average from EOR
- Case DPS Flats - With Gov Vehicle = 0.0708 mpp -- Weekly average from EOR - LHD Gov vehicle only! ( what about RHD Gov vehicle? )

-- Reload / Unload time standards S053, S054, S059, and S060 refer to retrieving items from behind bulkhead which will be hard to do with the wire cage separating the two areas. Maybe they will just go with retrieving items from the rear and or add "side doors".

" Van≠LLV"

-- Could be the Metris van is not equal to an LLV.

-- Supposedly the Metris has more cargo space, plus 2 shelves, plus the wire cage that separates the driver area from the cargo area.
I think it would be fascinating to get an actual factual answer from the union!!!

From your work here, it looks like there's not much difference. And yes, the process Bukowski described above, all two hundred steps for each mail drop or parcel, is what we all go through every day in an LLV.
 

foxyfox

Active member
So...with these new vehicles is management liable to fix any repairs? What about flat tires?
If this is the case, my office will not get them.
Office A has just a PM and clerk working (sometimes just one person especially Saturdays) They also have nobody there from 1230 til 2 during the week and after 1130 on Saturdays.
Office B is worse. Everyone is gone by 1145 during the week and after 930 on Saturdays.

Nobody to run us a backup vehicle. Nobody to come change my tire (lol). If the rules are the same as LLV we will not get these fancy cars here
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
So...with these new vehicles is management liable to fix any repairs? What about flat tires?
If this is the case, my office will not get them.
Office A has just a PM and clerk working (sometimes just one person especially Saturdays) They also have nobody there from 1230 til 2 during the week and after 1130 on Saturdays.
Office B is worse. Everyone is gone by 1145 during the week and after 930 on Saturdays.

Nobody to run us a backup vehicle. Nobody to come change my tire (lol). If the rules are the same as LLV we will not get these fancy cars here
They might contract with a garage in the area... like maybe a AAA garage.... they do flat repairs and so forth.... :unsure:
 

Voglio-il mio

Well-known member
The current fuel formula is 4.5 minutes per 100 miles. DPS would increase from 30 per minute to 47 per minute.
Just to clarify the DPS time standard is actually a decease (in time) not an increase. Its a decease of about 1/3 for that piece of your evaluation! As for the Fueling if you don't have a gas station on your line of travel (I don't) make sure you also get the additional mileage for your (typically LLV) two refuels a week! For me its only about 4 miles, but that adds 48 minutes a week based on our current standards of 12 minutes a mile, it all adds up resulting in pushing you into the next higher evaluation!
 

Old Fart

Well-known member
I'm currently in offices which are suburban/office deliveries, with VMF 15 miles away, so they make regular visits to our office for repairs. If repairs are needed, the Vehicle Repair Form is completed, submitted to supervisor, and it's electronically entered for que and repair or tow. That's for all our PO owned vehicles. Any repair is covered and done by VMF, no matter how small or insignificant. I have worked in the past using POV just as reference.

I thought all repairs were fully covered for ANY PO provided vehicle?

The offices I'm in contact with where winter driving chains are sometimes necessary, and tows from stuck vehicles, the PO provides the service, through contracts with local garages and tire stores. All the employee needs to do in circumstances is call in to the supervisor and it's set in motion for remedy. Even the offices with mix of LLV and POV they provide chain and tow help to both. (perhaps because it's an outside contract and the district can't determine whether it's PO or POV??)

Chime in fellow brain surgeons, educate me! I don't know what I don't know.
 

Gotrope

Well-known member
Yes, any fuel deviation is added to mileage. The DPS calculation for right hand drive GOV is a 57% decrease over POV. The routes given promasters or other left hand drive GOV do not take the DPS hit. My llv needs gas every 60 miles. It can't go 100 miles without running dry well before that point. I do hope the nrlca considers DPS handled on the street is not fuel efficient and as such, we shouldn't be compensated at half time elements for fueling. When rca's drive my vehicle with one bundle mail it still won't go past 75 miles before running out of gas. The 100 mile formula is a crock.

Regarding repairs, if a vehicle becomes inoperable on the route they contract with local tows to return it to USPS office for voma to repair. When the llv's were new they were pretty reliable except for torque converters on hill routes. And of course the USPS was shocked at how often the brakes needed to be replaced. Those of us who had been replacing brakes every three months laughed hard. Maintenance cost enough on a personal vehicle you actually try to conserve life span on. Give us essentially a rental car and it's going to be driven like we stole it.😂
 
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Gotrope

Well-known member
Just a little tip for those new to GOV - check your vehicle every morning as soon as you arrive for work. Any repairs need to be notified as soon as possible to hope you can use your route vehicle on any given day. A simple tire or battery replacement can usually be repaired that day. But anything requiring specific parts may take 24 hours or longer. If a vehicle starts acting hinky on the route call your manager and have them notify for repairs or you will have no vehicle tomorrow and will be waiting to share someone else's.
 

foxyfox

Active member
Our closer mechanic would be the larger post offices. one 20 miles north. One 25 miles east. A simple flat tire and the K route wont make truck.
I'm hoping they see the 2 miles of gravel roads on each route roughly as a deterrent as well
 

Old Fart

Well-known member
Just a little tip for those new to GOV - check your vehicle every morning as soon as you arrive for work. Any repairs need to be notified as soon as possible to hope you can use your route vehicle on any given day. A simple tire or battery replacement can usually be repaired that day. But anything requiring specific parts may take 24 hours or longer. If a vehicle starts acting hinky on the route call your manager and have them notify for repairs or you will have no vehicle tomorrow and will be waiting to share someone else's.
Gotrope recommends what we do in our daily lives but the PO rarely does, plan in advance, get a jump on problems. It's our survival. We all do first thing vehicle checks, and if there's an issue, VMF can possibly get it fixed while casing our routes.
 

Skierstmoritz

Well-known member
Our office, all llv, has a contract with a small local garage. Garage has a guy who is a whiz on llvs. Can fix most anything and they have parts in stock. Garage services 2 or 3 other officiEs as well. Nearest vmf is @ 75 miles away. Pm calls local garage , they show up for any llv issue. Saved us many a time. We are fortunate
 

MiddleOfNowhere

Well-known member
not all time increases are good. anyone with a 46k route, that has an hour increase, would likely be cut. i can still remember having a rear wheel drive in the late 70's, and how they handled on ice and snow. no thanks... maybe they'll be buying chains for the tires, and teaching rural carriers how to put them on. they used to put chains on some things. was it the llv's, or the really old jeeps they had?
 

realroutecarrier

Well-known member
I was told today I will be getting one of the vans. I'm a 34 mile aux route. I have concerns over a possible huge reduction in pay, not just loss of EMA, but in evaluated time. My coworker regular (there are just 2 of us for the area in which we deliver) expressed concern over being counted if they were to get a van. My manager is trying to get one for the regular too. Does anyone know if I will be counted as soon as they bring in the van? Right now would be terrible with such low mail volume. Also, would I be held to the time standards for LLV routes? If you consider the cage situation, all of us getting vans should gain time! Think of how often we are going to need to get out. And I'm trying to envision how all the getting out is going to go. Are we supposed to stop the van before the mailbox, set the parking brake, curb the wheels, turn the vehicle off, unbuckle the seatbelt, step out onto the side of a road, which may be long grass and a ditch, or a busy, 55 mph road, or 2 feet of snow, slide open the door, find the package, walk it to the mailbox, scan it, return to the vehicle, buckle up, turn on the car, uncurb the wheels, release the parking brake, and do all that all over again at the next house with a package small enough to fit into a box, but not able to be within reach up front? I guess you could do all of it, minus walking the package to the box. You could retrieve it and get back into the driver's seat and deliver it from the van, but you're still getting out and going through all of those steps. Wouldn't time added to the route be legitimate with the new vans?
I think we might be over thinking the cage thing a bit! We in LLVs already do stop the truck, pull the brakes, curb the wheels, unbuckle and get out of the truck! How else do we deliver the packages? 😂 we already should not be twisting around into the back from the seat, the cage will only stop that part! But let’s think of the good parts!
air conditioner, heat, they should drive like a dream not a one horse wagon,your going to get a gas card, so free gas! And when ur transmission is out u won’t have to use ur vacation days while they fix it!! It’s going to be great! You will never miss that ema money it will look different but it won’t be different!
 

flash

Well-known member
not all time increases are good. anyone with a 46k route, that has an hour increase, would likely be cut. i can still remember having a rear wheel drive in the late 70's, and how they handled on ice and snow. no thanks... maybe they'll be buying chains for the tires, and teaching rural carriers how to put them on. they used to put chains on some things. was it the llv's, or the really old jeeps they had?
The LLVs do have chains, we even have them here, and it snowed about 4 years ago, and occasionally ice storms.
Not sure if they’re actually IN all the LLVs, but the safety office does have them and will train you how to use them.
 

22222

Well-known member
I think it would be fascinating to get an actual factual answer from the union!!!

From your work here, it looks like there's not much difference. And yes, the process Bukowski described above, all two hundred steps for each mail drop or parcel, is what we all go through every day in an LLV.
The LLVs do have chains, we even have them here, and it snowed about 4 years ago, and occasionally ice storms.
Not sure if they’re actually IN all the LLVs, but the safety office does have them and will train you how to use them.
I never learned how to do chains or cables(which are better) when they came off I called in, if i needed them while i was out on the route they came and put them on or towed me to a garage and put them on, not in my job description. Be sure you ask who is going to take care of repairs and maintenance and flats and chains....NOT YOU! Even if they pay you.
 

flash

Well-known member
I never learned how to do chains or cables(which are better) when they came off I called in, if i needed them while i was out on the route they came and put them on or towed me to a garage and put them on, not in my job description. Be sure you ask who is going to take care of repairs and maintenance and flats and chains....NOT YOU! Even if they pay you.
Ok,
Sorry.
Wasn’t trying to tell you that you had to do “work” for free.
Just stating that in our district they are available even though they would be needed about once every 5 years.
Guess I’m too used to a POV where I change flats, do maintenance on the fly, and yes, I have chains and know how to put them on. And have, on occasion, had to be pulled out a ditch or two. Just saying.
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
Our office, all llv, has a contract with a small local garage. Garage has a guy who is a whiz on llvs. Can fix most anything and they have parts in stock. Garage services 2 or 3 other officiEs as well. Nearest vmf is @ 75 miles away. Pm calls local garage , they show up for any llv issue. Saved us many a time. We are fortunate
I'm in a remote area as well.... no nearby VMF.... a few years ago, they put LLVs on several rural routes at a nearby PO... I saw lots of them on the back of a flatbed tow truck from a garage right down the street from the PO, I was told they had a contract with this garage for towing and minor repairs.... for major repairs they probably sent them off to a VMF... I doubt there is only a one size fits all solution for PO vehicle maintenance and repairs.... :unsure:
 

DB.Cooper

Well-known member
I think we might be over thinking the cage thing a bit! We in LLVs already do stop the truck, pull the brakes, curb the wheels, unbuckle and get out of the truck! How else do we deliver the packages? 😂 we already should not be twisting around into the back from the seat, the cage will only stop that part! But let’s think of the good parts!
air conditioner, heat, they should drive like a dream not a one horse wagon,your going to get a gas card, so free gas! And when ur transmission is out u won’t have to use ur vacation days while they fix it!! It’s going to be great! You will never miss that ema money it will look different but it won’t be different!
It's such a shell game.... give it here, and take it away over there..... I ain't skeered.... give me a brand damned new Mercedes-Benz.... try to scare me like that.... make my day.... :oops: (y)🤗😬:):cool:
 
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