Question about Holidays

CurryStorm

New member
I've been a rural carrier for about a year and a half so I'm still learning all the ins-and-outs of the rules. Our office has a new (in terms of new to our office and new in terms of just becoming a postmaster) postmaster that doesn't seem to know the rules herself. She'll tell you one thing, and then two weeks later, tell you something completely different. Thus, I have decided that I must return to my school days and start studying the rule books in order to make sure no one is taking advantage of my lack of knowledge. I have a few questions, mainly regarding having to work on your holiday.

1) What is the order in which rural carriers are required to have to work on their holiday? Let's say there are 4 routes in an office and it's the Saturday before Columbus day. 2 carriers have Saturday as their normal day off and 2 carriers have Mondays off; therefore, all 4 carriers are scheduled to be off the Saturday before Columbus day. However, there are only 3 RCAs so 1 of the carriers will have to work. If all 4 carriers want off, who will be forced to work? Does it depend on seniority? Or the fact that it's a "holiday" day for 2 of the carriers, while it's just your standard K day for the other 2? Or does it depend on which carriers have RCAs? In general, how would this be decided? And what form and/or document states this?

2) If a rural carrier is made to work on their holiday, it's my understanding they get double (holiday) pay. Instead of getting holiday pay, can they decide to exchange it for a day of Annual Leave? I read where some workers can choose to exchange the extra pay for an extra day of AL, but it appears on a chart that I looked at on about.usps.com that rural carriers do not have this option - am I reading this correctly?

3) And here's my biggest question: what code book do I need to get and study so I'll know the answers to questions like I've asked above? Is it an Union book, or the Rural Carrier's handbook... there's so many different rule books that I'm not sure the exact one I need. If I have to file a grievance, I would like to have the exact book that answers questions such as the ones above so I can list "per code 4324.3 section b of the ____ book why did the postmaster not do such-and-such" whenever I have a dispute with the person in charge. What is the most important rule book for a rural carrier to know so I won't be taken advantage of in the future?

Some of this might be common knowledge, but I've always been the type of person that just wants to do the best job they can do everyday and then get back home to my family. However, I am learning that people will take advantage of you if you don't know all the ins-and-outs of how the post office works. Thanks for any help.
 

22222

Member
People who work on Mondays usually get screwed on holidays when there is no help. The k day supersedes the holiday. The people who work their holiday get nothing but an extra days pay which IS the holiday On The situation you stated the most jr reg that has Mondays off would be the one who is forced to work on sat... having a sub or not is never a reason to work or not. Senior carriers can volunteer, juniors are forced. One of the k day carriers can volunteer to work sat for a deca 3 unless you have a work list then the carrier gets a 5. Look for "order of consideration"
 

eomr

Well-known member
Good for you that you want to learn about your job. The first thing that you should learn is the 603. That's the manual that should be at your case. The other is the contract. In both cases, if you can't find them, they are here in the database. And please ask questions. There's a lot of knowledge on this website. Way to go!
 

btdtret

Well-known member
CurryStorm -- "[ New PM ] She'll tell you one thing, and then two weeks later, tell you something completely different. "

-- Start documenting. Some new PM's are willing to being open to "correction" if you can politely provide a reference. ( okay, a very few! )

-- 1) Does your office have a Relief Day Work List? Then there is the Order of Consideration ( Step 4 ( O-6 )) -- is that posted?

-- 2) Double Pay? Don't think so. Probably the best will be 150% when using DACA 5 for working a relief day. Those extra "annual leave day" sounds more like an "X-Day" received when working a relief day. Supposed to be utilized within 12 weeks of "earning" it or during parts of the year, using it within the pay period earned.

-- 3) What code book do I need to get and study so I'll know the answers to questions like I've asked above? For your above questions, instead of "code books", turn to the EL-902 ( aka the contract ), the F-21 ( Time and Attendance handbook ) and Step 4 ( O-6 ).

"but I've always been the type of person that just wants to do the best job they can do everyday and then get back home to my family. "

-- Sorry to say, but if you want to get to know the in's and out's of the postal service and NRLCA, some of that "family time" will need to be given up for your "studies".

-- Besides the above mentioned references, a short list should include:

- M-38 -- Management of Rural Delivery Services
- PO-603 -- Rural Carrier Duties and Responsibilities
- ELM -- Employee and Labor Relations Manual
- Publication 32 -- Glossary of Postal Terms
- RDSOP + Clarification -- Rural Delivery Standard Operating Procedures + Clarification
- RDWL -- Relief Day Work List
- Formula Office
- Matrix
- 2080 / 2240

- Years: calendar / leave / fiscal / guarantee

- Postal policies on harassment, bullying, standards of conduct, and ethics ( yes there is such a thing ).

- Later on you can get into the various form numbers and their purposes.

-- There are literally centuries of knowledge here at RI. Got a question? Ask it! Someone most likely has experienced it and or knows the answer.

- Determine what region and area you are in and the Office Steward, Assistant District Representative and District Representative.
- Might include contact info for your state and US congressional representatives as well as the NRLCA HQ address, phone # and web address.

- Some references can be found by poking around here at RI. Others can be Googled. Just download them as some have MANY pages.

-- Manglement tends to leave rural carriers who know their stuff alone and instead, pick on those less knowledgeable.

-- Best to keep in mind that it will be a continuing learning process while you work for the USPS.
 

gerl2

Well-known member
1) What is the order in which rural carriers are required to have to work on their holiday?
I believe the confusion about who is supposed to be off is due to the fact city carriers must bring in the overtime people first then all the people on Saturday before bringing in the Holiday people, and naturally, our union allows the opposite because it is cheaper for the PO.
 

Lady Carrier

Well-known member
CurryStorm -- "

-- 2) Double Pay? Don't think so. Probably the best will be 150% when using DACA 5 for working a relief day. Those extra "annual leave day" sounds more like an "X-Day" received when working a relief day. Supposed to be utilized within 12 weeks of "earning" it or during parts of the year, using it within the pay period earned.
Where the "Double Pay" comes into play is when your relief day is Monday and then we have a holiday on that Monday.
Monday continues to be your relief day and Saturday becomes your holiday.
If you have to work Monday (should not happen - PO is closed - no delivery of mail, only Amazon) then you would get DACA 3 or DACA 5.
When you are junior carrier you will have to work that Saturday if your office is short on subs. (You usually work on Saturday anyway).
You get paid both holiday pay and route pay for that day, looking like double pay.
Relief day off (those with Saturday relief day) happens before holiday off (those with Monday relief day).
If your office is short on subs, those with Monday relief day will work the Saturday before Columbus day starting with most junior carrier and then up the seniority list of those with Monday relief day.
Then if more are needed go to the RDWL for those with Saturday relief day.
Then if more needed continue up the seniority list for those with Saturday relief day.

Order of Consideration: Order of consideration – Covering a route
The new contract makes a change to this OOC. A sub can be borrowed before requiring a regular NOT on the RDWL to work their relief day.
 

Windindaface

Well-known member
@CurryStorm 2) If a rural carrier is made to work on their holiday, it's my understanding they get double (holiday) pay. Instead of getting holiday pay, can they decide to exchange it for a day of Annual Leave? I read where some workers can choose to exchange the extra pay for an extra day of AL, but it appears on a chart that I looked at on about.usps.com that rural carriers do not have this option - am I reading this correctly?

The only time you are entitled to Double Holiday pay is when you work the actual day of the Holiday. Have not seen this happen for a Rural with my 20+in.


They love saying the Double Pay smoke and mirror show to the Monday off unwise. Sure you can look at it like that. The fact is you are losing an entitled day off.

If you want to protect the SAT before a MON holiday those should submit leave slips way in advance for the SAT before a MON holiday.

A random later thought here... You mention 4 routes, 3 RCAS. Not knowing the sizes of these 4 routes and the 12 hr actual work rule. It seems to me with 3 RCAS and 4 routes needing coverage here. They should be forcing the 3 RCA's to split the vacant route.
 
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Windindaface

Well-known member
@btdtret …. Those of us with a Monday relief day can only sign the RDWL for Mondays and extra pay. So when we work the Sat before a Monday holiday the RDWL has no bearing. We are available unless we have approved time off for the Sat before days in advance.
 

CurryStorm

New member
Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to get my hands on the various resources listed and start studying. Sigh.

Where the "Double Pay" comes into play is when your relief day is Monday and then we have a holiday on that Monday.
Monday continues to be your relief day and Saturday becomes your holiday.
If you have to work Monday (should not happen - PO is closed - no delivery of mail, only Amazon) then you would get DACA 3 or DACA 5.
When you are junior carrier you will have to work that Saturday if your office is short on subs. (You usually work on Saturday anyway).
You get paid both holiday pay and route pay for that day, looking like double pay.
This is my situation. I'm the junior carrier and my 'K' day is Monday.
 

CurryStorm

New member
If you want to protect the SAT before a MON holiday those should submit leave slips way in advance for the SAT before a MON holiday.

A random later thought here... You mention 4 routes, 3 RCAS. Not knowing the sizes of these 4 routes and the 12 hr actual work rule. It seems to me with 3 RCAS and 4 routes needing coverage here. They should be forcing the 3 RCA's to split the vacant route.
I did figure that out about, if I really need the Saturday holiday off, I'll need to put in a leave slip for it.

Also, the above about the 4 routes was just an example I was using. My actual office has 5 rural routes, 1 aux. rural route and 2 city routes with 3 RCA's. Our PM goes the complete opposite of "forcing the 3 RCA's to split the vacant route." I put in a leave slip for this coming Tuesday as did another carrier. A third carrier wanted to put in a leave slip for Tuesday too, but our PM denied it. When asked why she denied it - I mean we have 3 RCA's and only 3 people wanted off - she said it would be too much of a burden on the RCA's to do the 3 routes and then do the aux. route (which is a 3 hour route that used to take me around 1-1/2 hours when I did it as an RCA). So, the day after Columbus day, 2 of the RCA's will be on full routes with the 3rd only being used on the 3 hour aux. route. Tell me that isn't idiotic. I work in a small office that doesn't get a whole lot of mail - I have the biggest route, a 45K, and I average around 65 scans a days with up to 150 around Christmas - so it's not like the routes have this massive amount of mail volume.
 

Lady Carrier

Well-known member
Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to get my hands on the various resources listed and start studying. Sigh.



This is my situation. I'm the junior carrier and my 'K' day is Monday.
You will work Saturday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, & Friday. You should see 5 work days and 1 holiday on your paycheck.

Article 11.2.B
B. When a holiday falls on the relief day of an evaluated carrier, the carrier shall be granted the preceding work day as the designated holiday.
When the primary leave replacement is unavailable on the carrier’s designated holiday and other leave replacements are unavailable in accordance
with Article 30.2.D., the regular carrier may be scheduled to work on the designated holiday. For the purpose of this section, a leave replacement is considered unavailable when he or she is assigned to work on any regular or auxiliary route. A regular rural carrier required to work on a designated holiday shall receive the daily rate of pay for such day in addition to holiday leave pay to which the employee is entitled.
 

flash

Active member
Not sure I agree with most responses...
Your k day is Mon. So holiday is sat.
Time goes in as V time.
Double pay.
RCAs if not in formula office should go with the route they're assigned. Doesn't matter if junior carrier.
Then the rdwl comes in, if, another carrier just wants the O.T.
In my humble opinion of course.
 

MiddleOfNowhere

Well-known member
the saturday is a day that they would normally work, and get straight time pay for. with a monday holiday, the holiday moves to saturday, and they get holiday pay for saturday and the straight time pay they would normally receive. pm's like to call it double pay, but in reality, if you did get the day off, you would receive holiday pay for the day, and not work. so, your only getting straight time for working the day, and the holiday pay that you would receive, whether you work or not. the k day, monday, remains an unpaid day.

most junior carrier, with monday relief day, is forced in, and rdwl is not a factor, because there working a holiday, not the relief day. carriers with saturday relief day, are unaffected, whether they want ot or not. they don't get a choice.

been down this road many times.
 

Heywood

Member
Not sure I agree with most responses...
Your k day is Mon. So holiday is sat.
Time goes in as V time.
Double pay.
RCAs if not in formula office should go with the route they're assigned. Doesn't matter if junior carrier.
Then the rdwl comes in, if, another carrier just wants the O.T.
In my humble opinion of course.
PostalTexan. What is the point of this forum if people can just spout shit that has no basis in reality (the contract)?
 

BeatsAll-IEverSeen

Active member
PostalTexan. What is the point of this forum if people can just spout shit that has no basis in reality (the contract)?
Lol, when has that EVER been a requirement on this forum? Half the posts aren't tethered to any reality at all, let alone a contractual one. "Oh hey, just do A, B, C and you'll win your grievance, guaranteed!" "Denied leave? Just call in, they can't do anything to you." "Don't want to follow orders? No problem, just do whatever you feel appropriate." "Don't like your steward? Just bash the hell out of him/her, we'll pile on too!"

Spouting shit is the coin of the realm around here, sir.
 

Windindaface

Well-known member
Isn't V time a City thing ?

As a Rural I have never seen V time on any check when I had to work my "awarded" Saturday holiday with a Monday as my K day.
 
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