Letter of Warning
- Thread starter Heyyou
- Start date
mailman1963
Active member
Discipline is supposed to be incremental, starting with an official discussion. Did that take place? If not, it should have before a LOW was issued. Look up Weingarten Rights for starters.
Tmail -- "I just got a letter of warning for calling in sick. I only had 1 before this one and I also had documentation from the Doctor showing that I was sick. How do I word my grievance? I know question 4, it must be a question. "
-- Ask your office steward or one of the "old time" regulars in the office.
-- If no help there, contact your Assistant District Representative.
-- Manglement seems to be getting "LOW" Happy these days.
"calling in sick. "
-- Did you use the unscheduled absence number AND get a confirmation # or just call the office?
-- Did manglement in any way discuss the use of sick leave?
-- Did manglement have the LOW already prepared before any discussion, if there was a discussion?
-- Possible Line 4: Did manglement violate Article 16 discipline procedures? ( hopefully someone has something much better! )
-- Ask your office steward or one of the "old time" regulars in the office.
-- If no help there, contact your Assistant District Representative.
-- Manglement seems to be getting "LOW" Happy these days.
"calling in sick. "
-- Did you use the unscheduled absence number AND get a confirmation # or just call the office?
-- Did manglement in any way discuss the use of sick leave?
-- Did manglement have the LOW already prepared before any discussion, if there was a discussion?
-- Possible Line 4: Did manglement violate Article 16 discipline procedures? ( hopefully someone has something much better! )
RuralMunky
Member
I would word it like "Is management violating the contract by issuing me a Letter of Warning for using sick leave." Or something to that effect. Your ADR may have a better way of posing the question.
John Winger
Active member
Make sure the steward asks if there was a "review and concurrence". Management MUST obtain a review and concurrence when issuing discipline. I've met a dozen or so PMs that were totally clueless on the requirement.
I know some spell everything out, but.Who does the "review and concurrence" ???
You don't learn the contract that way.
Article 16.6
Frequently ones asked by manglement
Windindaface
Well-known member
Schedule all SL is their mind set for us.
Who does management call when they call in sick? Ghost Busters?
I bet it is not local to POOM by PM, Stupy or 204 at some early AM call. Heavens forbid we wake any of them up with a call or text this early for a heads up.
Who does management call when they call in sick? Ghost Busters?
I bet it is not local to POOM by PM, Stupy or 204 at some early AM call. Heavens forbid we wake any of them up with a call or text this early for a heads up.
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You need to see your steward and file a grievance. Then file an EEO. Why would you have documentation for the absences? Don't let them intimidate you. For them, it's all about their performance bonuses. Three sick leave uses in a year is not a lot. What will they do when the bulk mail starts piling up after the Holidays? They've gone too far and they know it. Now their only choice is to crack the whip on us. Take care of yourself and work safely because if you get really ill or injured, they'll walk you out.
FMLA FAQ - Is a cold or the flu a serious health condition?
Posted by Bill Pokorny on September 02, 2010
Q: Can an employee take FMLA leave due to a cold or the flu?
A: Yes, if it otherwise meets the definition of a "serious health condition."
This question is confusing to many employers, and even some folks who hold themselves out FMLA experts. The source of this confusion is a misleading passage in the FMLA rules:
The passage above is included in the FMLA rules as an example only. It in no way limits the definition of "serious health condition." If an FMLA-eligible employee has a bad case of the flu, is incapacitated for more than three full consecutive days, and goes to the doctor and receives a prescription for antibiotics, that employee is entitled to FMLA leave. The same is true regardless of the condition, whether it is a cold or sinus infection or ear ache. If the condition meets the criteria in the rules, then it is a "serious health condition" and the FMLA applies.
This conclusion leads to an obvious question: do employers need to go through the whole FMLA process every time an employee comes down with the sniffles?
FMLA FAQ - Is a cold or the flu a serious health condition?
Posted by Bill Pokorny on September 02, 2010
Q: Can an employee take FMLA leave due to a cold or the flu?
A: Yes, if it otherwise meets the definition of a "serious health condition."
This question is confusing to many employers, and even some folks who hold themselves out FMLA experts. The source of this confusion is a misleading passage in the FMLA rules:
Reading this, one might assume that when an employee calls in sick with the flu, there's no need to worry about FMLA leave. That, unfortunately, is the wrong answer.
The passage above is included in the FMLA rules as an example only. It in no way limits the definition of "serious health condition." If an FMLA-eligible employee has a bad case of the flu, is incapacitated for more than three full consecutive days, and goes to the doctor and receives a prescription for antibiotics, that employee is entitled to FMLA leave. The same is true regardless of the condition, whether it is a cold or sinus infection or ear ache. If the condition meets the criteria in the rules, then it is a "serious health condition" and the FMLA applies.
This conclusion leads to an obvious question: do employers need to go through the whole FMLA process every time an employee comes down with the sniffles?
John Winger
Active member
Who does the "review and concurrence" ???
The manager issuing discipline must have their boss review and concur on the decision.
Our POOM was telling PMs to write up carriers (USPS = micromanagement). 5 of the 6 carriers received LOWs. Being the local at the time I asked who reviewed the cases - "Mr. POOM told me I had to issue discipline so he reviewed it".
Checkmate. Everything was tossed.
I would bet several hundred dollars that very few managers follow the rules.
Yah, that's how I avoided a LOW.
That and knowing the contract.
Which is why I posted the article.
We MUST know the contract forward, backward and upside down. Same as we do the mail count guide.
Don't count on others. Knowledge is power and often just throwing said knowledge in management's faces is enough for them to back down. Other times you need to file the grievance in order to get their attention.
But either way, you empower yourself by researching. And it starts with knowing the contract.
That and knowing the contract.
Which is why I posted the article.
We MUST know the contract forward, backward and upside down. Same as we do the mail count guide.
Don't count on others. Knowledge is power and often just throwing said knowledge in management's faces is enough for them to back down. Other times you need to file the grievance in order to get their attention.
But either way, you empower yourself by researching. And it starts with knowing the contract.
BeatsAll-IEverSeen
Well-known member
LOWs don’t require review and concurrence, only suspensions and NORs.
Have no idea what you’re talking about.
@BeatsAll-IEverSeen - if the situation was like mine, I understand it.
POOMs don't know or are arrogant.
Ditto PMs.
When you ask an intelligent question which reveals their ignorance/arrogance, they will back down. I asked the very question mentioned, was told the POOM wanted me written up. I quoted art 16.6 and advised PM that I would grieve and to let the POOM know same. Didn't matter that it had nothing to do with LOWs and everything to do with I had the upper hand.
Last I heard of it. Didn't even have an official discussion. Everything went byebye.
POOMs don't know or are arrogant.
Ditto PMs.
When you ask an intelligent question which reveals their ignorance/arrogance, they will back down. I asked the very question mentioned, was told the POOM wanted me written up. I quoted art 16.6 and advised PM that I would grieve and to let the POOM know same. Didn't matter that it had nothing to do with LOWs and everything to do with I had the upper hand.
Last I heard of it. Didn't even have an official discussion. Everything went byebye.
DB.Cooper
Well-known member
When citing a contract article that doesn't apply to LOWs.... in order to avoid a LOW... well, I guess maybe it can work if you put on the right poker face....
