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Union Decertification in progress. If we all do our part we will succeed!

If the Teamsters thing is really not an option, it ruins the speculation on whose legs get broken over missing paychecks in future.
Teamsters want no conflict with Uncle Sugar.

 
Teamsters want no conflict with Uncle Sugar.

OMG! Surely they have to pay that back!

I receive a pension from a state fund. Ours is administered very well, and the members (unfortunately/fortunately) habitually died at earlier ages, so it never fails to be under 100% funded. Traditionally, members had received a COLA every 2 years, which had to be approved by the state legislature.

Since I retired, though, political correctness has prevailed, now we only get the COLA when the crummy teachers and firefighter's pension systems are also able to give a COLA. They are not so well run, so its a crapshoot.
 
OMG! Surely they have to pay that back!

I receive a pension from a state fund. Ours is administered very well, and the members (unfortunately/fortunately) habitually died at earlier ages, so it never fails to be under 100% funded. Traditionally, members had received a COLA every 2 years, which had to be approved by the state legislature.

Since I retired, though, political correctness has prevailed, now we only get the COLA when the crummy teachers and firefighter's pension systems are also able to give a COLA. They are not so well run, so its a crapshoot.
Central States is one of a few that Teamsters has in different geographical areas. It was toast before Covid and part of the 90+ billion that went to all pension funds. Lucky timing I suppose. Reminds me of the poorly run corrupt big cities trying to jump on the handout bandwagon that were going bankrupt before Covid even showed up. The Fed is still trying to account for where all the 1.9 Trillion went that this was part of. Nevermind the Tarp $$ from 2008-09. I'll have to look into if it even requires payback...maybe in votes.

Intention wasn't to denigrate the Teamsters...they are the best at negotiating it seems. It just highlights how the elected from both sides will leave postal employee benefits flapping in the wind, but will hit the print money button for others.
 
Central States is one of a few that Teamsters has in different geographical areas. It was toast before Covid and part of the 90+ billion that went to all pension funds. Lucky timing I suppose. Reminds me of the poorly run corrupt big cities trying to jump on the handout bandwagon that were going bankrupt before Covid even showed up. The Fed is still trying to account for where all the 1.9 Trillion went that this was part of. Nevermind the Tarp $$ from 2008-09. I'll have to look into if it even requires payback...maybe in votes.

Intention wasn't to denigrate the Teamsters...they are the best at negotiating it seems. It just highlights how the elected from both sides will leave postal employee benefits flapping in the wind, but will hit the print money button for others.
Besides, the union who represents us has nothing to do in determining our pensions or health care. The Feds do that, one reason it irritates me is that the current union really doesn't have much to negotiate but it still seems monumental to them. I would hope for a union that could successfully negotiate better pay, working conditions and end management harassment. Ours seems to negotiate away something important each contract.
 
Besides, the union who represents us has nothing to do in determining our pensions or health care. The Feds do that, one reason it irritates me is that the current union really doesn't have much to negotiate but it still seems monumental to them. I would hope for a union that could successfully negotiate better pay, working conditions and end management harassment. Ours seems to negotiate away something important each contract.
What baffles me the most is that this association, in the last 14 years I carried, doesn't even pretend to put up a fight for the craft. The odds are long and often futile, but standing up is a leadership requirement. Paycheck fiasco/ withholding backpay/ etc... ..."This is NOT acceptable". Fighting words I suppose.
 
What baffles me the most is that this association, in the last 14 years I carried, doesn't even pretend to put up a fight for the craft. The odds are long and often futile, but standing up is a leadership requirement. Paycheck fiasco/ withholding backpay/ etc... ..."This is NOT acceptable". Fighting words I suppose.
Yeah, throw in the avalanche of Amazon, followed by many other companies' packages, then the Covid surge and the acceptance of the term "whenever administratively possible" for contract related backpay.
 
How long will it take to build a new union from scratch?
Quite a while I would think. Let's say the decertify movement gets its 30% and then the Teamsters say they won't represent us. And then a group of us decide we would like to form our own independent Rural Carriers Union. The vanguard would have to present the craft with a coherent idea of what we wish to accomplish collectively as a new union that is better than the existing union. We'd have to have our operations up and running while we campaign for recognition. That would require money that we wouldn't have because we wouldn't have union dues yet.

We would need a charismatic and thoughtful leader. We would need a board ready to go. Probably would need a law firm ready to go.

Maybe by the time our potential upcoming contract expires, but not by the time our current one does.
 
Yeah, throw in the avalanche of Amazon, followed by many other companies' packages, then the Covid surge and the acceptance of the term "whenever administratively possible" for contract related backpay.
You've been at it awhile so have a much better read. Mine: They honeymooned with USPS for quite awhile after the FSLA exemption from what I understand. Wins/losses for awhile, then the slamming by the Wells Award, followed by Clarke a decade later. I felt a union presence when starting in 2010, but shortly after the Clake Award and thereafter I sensed a strangeness as if it took the wind out of union leadership sails and haven't recovered since... characteristics of Pavlov's gaslit Union.

Have always wondered which actually came first: USPS planning for rural Table 2 or the idea of full-blown Amazon delivery? A correlation?
 
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You've been at it while so have a much better read. Mine: They honeymooned with USPS for quite awhile after the FSLA exemption from what I understand. Wins/losses for awhile, then the slamming by the Wells Award, followed by Clarke a decade later. I felt a union presence when starting in 2010, but shortly after the Clake Award and thereafter I sensed a strangeness as if it took the wind out of union leadership sails and haven't recovered since... characteristics of Pavlov's gaslit Union.

Have always wondered which actually came first: USPS planning for rural Table 2 or the idea of full-blown Amazon delivery? A correlation?
You've cited some very valid as well as important massacres . The '02 "count" was where it all started.
 
Have always wondered which actually came first: USPS planning for rural Table 2 or the idea of full-blown Amazon delivery? A correlation?
Fairly sure Table 2. Table 2 was a result of the 2008 recession panic. Amazon was more 2010-2012ish. Will never forget the regional postmaster making a stink in 2014 about how "if there is a smile on the Amazon label, that means it has to go today." I just ignored that and kept treating Amazon packages the same as all other mail.
 
Fairly sure Table 2. Table 2 was a result of the 2008 recession panic. Amazon was more 2010-2012ish. Will never forget the regional postmaster making a stink in 2014 about how "if there is a smile on the Amazon label, that means it has to go today." I just ignored that and kept treating Amazon packages the same as all other mail.
Yep, in 2008, UAW was subjected to the two-tier wage system when GM and FiatChrysler went broke and the federal government imposed it on them as a condition of rescuing their employers. They go into contract battle here shortly with...“The Teamsters recently ended tiers at UPS and we’re going to end tiers at the Big 3.” Like the Teamsters, they will point at corporate profits and threaten strike.

Our Table 2 was foisted on rurals by Arbitration in 2012 (back-dated to late Nov 2010 ☹️) after the APWU straight up agreed to it in 2010. The Amazon early adopters in my area had gone parcel crazy by 2012 and Amazon Sunday started here in spring of 2014. Feeling the competitive heat, UPS started Sunday delivery in 2018, and instituted their two-tier driver scale for just that purpose...for their own product and get in on Amazon while it lasted.
 
Morons. We’ll have no representation at management will rule. BTW post office always thought we earned way too much leave. Say goodbye to that because leave and other benefits are not guaranteed!!
Sorry I guess I may be a moron, but even I as a moron know we are Federal employees. The union has absolutely nothing to do with leave or those other benefits of which you speak. They are indeed guaranteed as Federal employees. The benefits you falsely claim are not guaranteed are, they are absolutely not negotiated by the union.

Amazing how someone assumes that if 30% of the craft signs a petition the sky will fall. It would just bring it to a vote which would require a majority vote for actual decertification to occur. I guess you fear that 50% of your fellow carrier are morons and would cause every carrier’s doom. Scorched Earth.

Fear mongering, misrepresentation, unfounded claims and extremist propaganda are not going to serve defense of the current union well. Some feel the root of the problem is that the union does not currently represent us adequately, management already rules.
 
I retired in late 2021 so I missed all the fun and games with the new evaluation system. I have no reason to doubt the numbers listed in the linked article. I’m just passing along information that may or may not be readily available.

Disclaimer: I have no love for the Union because of it’s failure to represent from hire date. When I made regular after 4 years on Table 2 (missed the cutoff by 1 month) I knew I was correct from the start. I came to the PO late in life after 30+ years in education with a full pension.

For those still out there…BE SAFE!!!

 
I agree with what you’re saying, but if there is no other union willing to step up, isn’t this less forethought and or planning than our current union? Therefore, placing us in a possibly more precarious place than we are currently in?
Actually, I prefer this to the method I've seen a lot of other carriers use which is just withdraw from the union and stop paying dues. A union with no money doesn't have a chance. Which is worse, reaching out in hopes another union will represent us with the ability to fall back on the crappy one we have if no one steps up, or just further cripple the union we have by withholding the money?
 
Actually, I prefer this to the method I've seen a lot of other carriers use which is just withdraw from the union and stop paying dues. A union with no money doesn't have a chance. Which is worse, reaching out in hopes another union will represent us with the ability to fall back on the crappy one we have if no one steps up, or just further cripple the union we have by withholding the money?
How much money does the NRLCA make ?
 
Actually, I prefer this to the method I've seen a lot of other carriers use which is just withdraw from the union and stop paying dues. A union with no money doesn't have a chance. Which is worse, reaching out in hopes another union will represent us with the ability to fall back on the crappy one we have if no one steps up, or just further cripple the union we have by withholding the money?
If you want to remove retired carriers from the voting membership of the union that represents Rural Carriers how else may it be done? It will require 2/3 vote at the National Convention if done with in the union.

If the union is decertified it will still have many of the expenses but not the income to pay for it after the savings give out.
 
How much money does the NRLCA make ?
$33.90 per pay period per regular carrier. Not sure what rcas now pay, (I’d guess half that?)
plus, the nrlca seems to up our dues every time we get contractual raises (and colas??)
Times (what was it new nrlca news rag said) 110,000 carriers?
That’s ALOT of cash they haul in per pay period, for what little representation they give us!
 
$33.90 per pay period per regular carrier. Not sure what rcas now pay, (I’d guess half that?)
plus, the nrlca seems to up our dues every time we get contractual raises (and colas??)
Times (what was it new nrlca news rag said) 110,000 carriers?
That’s ALOT of cash they haul in per pay period, for what little representation they give us!
I just PIZZED myself off even more…..
going off the numbers I just said, not looking into the news rag for “actual” carrier numbers, just used MY numbers….
WE, DUES PAYING REGULAR CARRIERS, no rcas dues added…..
we regulars, pay the nrlca $3,729,000 per pay period!
that $96,954,000 per year! Almost 97 MILLION DOLLARS a year! From regulars alone! No rca money, no ptf money! 97 MILLION DOLLARS a year!
97 million a year, FOR WHAT? We don’t SEE 97 million dollars a year worth of representation! Yet people still “doubt” decertification! If 97 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, for this LITTLE representation don’t help you decide to decertify, then we’re ALL DOOMED!
(Again, I’m NOT for decertification, I’m only for the initial 30% to initiate the decertification process. Let’s show the nrlca we mean business, and we’re paying you $97 MILLION per year to work FOR US! NOT YOURSELVES! US! WE PAY YOUR OVERPRICED SALARIES! Do your jobs, or step aside)

edit: looked in the news rag, nrlca TOTAL membership is 110,419. I didn’t notice how many of that is rcas/ptfs……. So I’ll assume my 97 MILLION per year is a couple MILLION per year high….. let’s, for chits and giggles, call it 75 million per year! Still no chump change, no matter how you look at it!
75 MILLION per year for the nrlca! And we’re getting what?
 
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To put it into perspective, we normally get a contract at about 1-1/2 % raise a year. Maybe 4% for an average contract. I listened to a news story today about the auto workers. The big 3 manufacturers were offering 17.5- 20 percent raises over a 4 year contract. Their union was asking for 40% over 4 years, along with 40 hours of pay, for a 32 hour workweek, and some other benefits. Made me resent the rlca a little more
 
To put it into perspective, we normally get a contract at about 1-1/2 % raise a year. Maybe 4% for an average contract. I listened to a news story today about the auto workers. The big 3 manufacturers were offering 17.5- 20 percent raises over a 4 year contract. Their union was asking for 40% over 4 years, along with 40 hours of pay, for a 32 hour workweek, and some other benefits. Made me resent the rlca a little more
Yup! I was thinking the EXACT same thing today as I was listening to the news on the big 3! And our nrlca will come back “1.3% is the best we can do folks! I suggest you vote yes!” And our members vote (what few that do vote) “yessa massa, you know waz best fo us slaves, yessa massa, we gonna vote yes”
 
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